domiguy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Louve00
quote:
ORIGINAL: leadership527
~FAST REPLY~
You know, much of this whole thread strikes me a lot like the blind leading the blind. It is a bunch of "Not-doormat" personalities discussing what the doormat personality is like (and just for the record, once again, I find that labeling objectionable, but I'll just go with the thread as stated) In general, I see a lot of theorizing without having any freaking clue. So instead, what's being said amounts to, "Well it's not like ME so it must be bad." Then, of course, we have those who for whatever reasons want to reclaim the word and make it good by their own definition (I'm a doormat but only with my owner -- presumably a well chosen owner so it only works out well). That's fine also, but honestly only muddies the waters of this conversation. Then there are those who want to make this a non-existent thing by carrying it to impossible degrees (the "never say 'no' to anyone" crowd). This is a lot like saying TPE doesn't exist because no slave would [insert suitably horrific thing here].
For the record, this thing that you all are calling a "doormat", I interpret as a personality that is naturally submissive... one that generally defaults to a submissive stance -- everywhere, all the time. Now, before the extremists pile on, let's remember that breathing is also a natural thing and normally doesn't rise to our attention. But given sufficient provocation (a lot of smoke in the air for instance), it does hit our level of awareness and then, for limited periods at least, we can choose to not breath. For the record, personality types, like most things, need context in order to work out well or not. And this personality type, like most, has it's up sides and down sides. There are situations in which is it definitely contra-indicated. But there are also situations in which it is extraordinarily well adapted -- first and foremost in my mind is that of being a slave.
So yes, Carol has some pretty broadly flexible boundaries with the world at large. For the most part, she submits to the will of others without even being aware she is doing it. Sometimes that works in her favor, other times against her. Yet it is also true that if someone transgresses those boundaries thoroughly enough (someone including myself) then suddenly, just like her breathing, she becomes aware of the behavior and can now choose what to do about it. And yes, just like you'd expect from the normal definition of doormat, while she does have defenses, those defenses are not anywhere near as well developed as most people's.
The bottom line here is I am NOT redefining the terms here. I am not trying to make those attributes into anything other than they are. She has a personality type which someone other than me might choose to apply the word "doormat" to. In my opinion, that'd be their loss, my gain. And I have to admit, I am laughing a great deal at the fact that, apparently, the one thing that is truly not acceptable in the BDSM community is.. you know... people who just naturally submit. This is especially humorous since every single dominant I know will gladly tell you that they are naturally dominant and do so all the time. Why aren't we vilifying those people and calling them "assholes". Surely, in the wrong situation, dominance does in fact become a bad thing. Is it really possible that BDSM'ers are, in fact, so incredibly afraid of submission?
Not only do I believe this, but I'll go one step further. For one, its a label. A label is just a label, it hardly truly makes the person whatever the label says it is, or I'd label myself a millionaire right now!!. I mean really identifies them. If I put an apple label on a basket of oranges its not for one silly moment going to change the orange itself. Unless no one knows what an orange looks like, it will be only until they bite into what they think is an apple that they will find out its an orange.
If someones into assuming the label of a doormat for their Master, so be it. If someone assumes the label of gorean, so be it. If someone labels themself as anything, so be it. But who is more accurately labeled than who? If you ask me, all those labels contribute to the memes that bring on all the confusion that keep people from being who they really want to be...or who they really are.
Dumb argument....Labels are labels just as adjectives are adjectives and words are words.
Ornages are oranges and apples are apples.
all the time we use our words to describe things. A doormat should be considered to be an inanimate object that has no worries or cares in the manner that it is used. Clean off your feet on it, piss on it, set the fucker on fire.
There are people like this. They simply are. Now if someone thinks that this is the desired trait of a submissive that is fine. I think it would be kind of cool to have a few of these types of gals lying around the house.
Many people are not going to think there is anything remotely positive or desirable about this type of an individual....I get that as well.
So there needs to be an understanding of the meaning of a word. instead we have a bunch of pompous Doms trying to justify their subs that exist within this dimension. it is what it is. You probably did nothing to create your doormat and she probably has a hard time discerning anything that is overly relevant to her life. Flotsam...jetsam.
< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/28/2010 10:20:19 AM >
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