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RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 8:50:59 AM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
Slavery asks a lot, more than most can give.
It takes a tremendously strong woman to be a slave, to give all.



I just don't share that opinion. If I had to be a dominant in my relationship, that would be asking more than I can give. To do what my Lord does, would be way more than I could give. Having authority in my relationship is not who I am at my core. Being his slave though is as easy as breathing because that is an interaction that allows and even celebrates who I am. The hard part was in realizing that I can be me and be loved and accepted for it. It doesn't matter whether that me was someone who wanted to give all authority to another or whether it was someone who wanted to have all the authority.

For me being a slave isn't the pinnacle in giving or strength. Being who you are, naked, vulnerable and open with your partner(s) in a constructive way to build and strengthen the relationship, yourself and each other is the pinnacle in strength and giving to me.

Knight's Kyra


You know, i really agree with this too. Odd to me that i agree with both perspectives - strength and simplicity. i think that actually is what slavery is for me - being strong, yet simple, at the same time.

i'm going to think about this. No well-formed thoughts to share right now, other than thank you for posting, and giving me something to consider.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 8:51:04 AM   
ownedbyPF


Posts: 126
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline 		Just a fast reply thingy here....

I didn't mean to stir any kind of anything up with my question about a slaves ability to function later. I meant it as a sincere question! Probably I should have posted it elsewhere, it just popped out because of having just seen it. Sooo anyhow, sorry for the thread jack, and I really hope, Whiplash, that you didn't think I was being snarky... I was being entirely genuine in my inquiry!
~s

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 8:54:26 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
Slavery asks a lot, more than most can give.
It takes a tremendously strong woman to be a slave, to give all.



I just don't share that opinion. If I had to be a dominant in my relationship, that would be asking more than I can give. To do what my Lord does, would be way more than I could give. Having authority in my relationship is not who I am at my core. Being his slave though is as easy as breathing because that is an interaction that allows and even celebrates who I am. The hard part was in realizing that I can be me and be loved and accepted for it. It doesn't matter whether that me was someone who wanted to give all authority to another or whether it was someone who wanted to have all the authority.

For me being a slave isn't the pinnacle in giving or strength. Being who you are, naked, vulnerable and open with your partner(s) in a constructive way to build and strengthen the relationship, yourself and each other is the pinnacle in strength and giving to me.

Knight's Kyra


And I concur.
But, and not sniping, genuine curiosity, how difficult a struggle was it for you reaching that place?
Some women have it happen-BAM.
Most I've known wrestle with that surrender, that fear and willingness to be totally open and vulnerable, and to give over all. Hell, some sit on that fence for years, caught between desire and fear.

< Message edited by Kana -- 2/26/2010 8:57:44 AM >

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 8:56:05 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		My pleasure, heartfelt.

I hope this thread is helping; I think it is a wonderful thread. I think that maybe the phrase "Afraid to be a slave" may be a little misleading. This is my own perspective, but for me, being a slave is about expressing who I am at my core. To be a slave in a relationship with my Lord means that I have to show him the core of who I am. And not only just show him but open the door and let him poke around in there and be who he is. To me that is the scary stuff. It wouldn't matter if who I am was a slave, daddy's girl, submissive, dominant, etc., sharing the core of myself with another human being is scary. There are some things about myself that even I don't like and yet he loves me and embraces me because of them and not in spite of them. That is where the fear is at for me.

Are you afraid to be a slave or are you afraid to be completely vulnerable and open with your partner? A little different perspective that may help or may just muddy the waters more *g*

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
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RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 9:16:49 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I am about to set myself up to get flamed, but I have done a great deal of thinking on this topic, and it just seems to me that the  structure stuff usually gets in the way of the entire communication and trust building thing.


~disclaimer, I am extremely sick and my thoughts might not be as well put together as usual as a result~

This is probably a thread all its own and no flames from me for this.... I think for some, the structure, protocol, rules get in the way and for others it is the life blood of the relationship. I know for me that in the beginning the structure was necessary in order to transfer authority to him. It was a nice and fine to say "he has complete authority" and continue on with my life, but he required me to demonstrate it time and time again. The structure, rules and protocol worked to condition me to always think of what his will is in any given situation. Asking for permission was a huge tool that he used to get my head in that mind frame.

For others structure impedes growth in the relationship, so it would be ridiculous for the dominant to use that tool. It is all about what works for the relationship.

Knight's Kyra


Kyra, as always you are a woman to make your Master proud.
Also, your post points out part of the problem with discussing all of this on the net. What is one dominant's well crafted "struture, rules, and protocols" is another fool's pathetic imitation but sometimes pretty words hide all that. Same goes for "laid back" dominance which is how I see Merc, a man who I also see as one of the more "intense" dominants despite his cavalier attitude. Same goes for Beth, a woman I see as anything but a "doormat" despite her self identifying as such.

Take me for example, many here have opinions about me but those here who know me in real life often hold very different opinions, both good AND bad. In the past, because of my fluffy romance with BSB many idiolized me as a loving dominant but I have a very dark sick streak and can be quite the sadist. So one person is talking how intense their slavery is but others, if they saw them in person might scoff and another who is very lighthearted about theirs others of us might say "oh my fucking god".

I have a dear friend in SF who is about as bubbly a woman as there can be, I have seen her in fits and giggles while her daddy double singletails her. When I first saw them play I about threw up. It seems so shallow and self concious, a pure act for others. Oh how fucking wrong I was, they have a very intense connection and are actually rabble rousers who fight the status quo and don't give a shit what others think. I have also seen that man who I first watch dance around her like a goofball do a hard core take down scene with the love of his life, kicking her with his boots, hitting her with a balled up fist and in her fighting back she broke a finger. It SO looked abusive and yet for THEM (and few others) they are the happiest they have ever been, the most productive, and their futures together more bright than all too many others.


< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 2/26/2010 9:19:24 AM >

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 9:17:58 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
But, and not sniping, genuine curiosity, how difficult a struggle was it for you reaching that place?


You know, I am not sure that I can answer that question with any chance of accurately portraying it. In a lot of ways it was as easy as breathing. In other ways, it was the second hardest thing that I have ever done (the first being overcoming 'major depressive disorder, severe'). It was hard when I was fighting who I was; it was easy when I just allowed myself to be.

I spent many years building walls to protect my core. Until I met my Lord, I had not met one single person who understood and appreciated the core of who I was. Even my mom told me that I would have to hold back and not be me with my partners. Being me wasn't hard; overcoming all the conditioning and tearing down the walls that I had built was hard.

In the beginning of my relationship, we were also long distance which adds its own emotional struggles, so it is hard to distinguish if the struggle was due to the distance or to being a slave. We have been living together for over two years now and the three of us fit so seamlessly together you would think we have been together for decades.

A couple weekends ago, we were at an event and someone mentioned that they wanted what Alandra and I have with him. I really have to wonder if they want to be a slave to someone or do they just want to be in a relationship where they can be who they are with their partner(s). Do people see a couple and say "I want that" and make the mistake of saying "I want M/s" when what they really want is the joy and peace that comes from being who they are?

Not sure if that answered your question or not. My brain is all jumbled and thoughts are flying faster than my fingers can type.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 9:34:47 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks Kyra,
As  always, you put it beautifully.
This:

In a lot of ways it was as easy as breathing. In other ways, it was the second hardest thing that I have ever done (the first being overcoming 'major depressive disorder, severe'). It was hard when I was fighting who I was; it was easy when I just allowed myself to be.

I spent many years building walls to protect my core.

Is in many ways what I was referring to. It takes a lot of strength and courage to be yourself, especially when it flies in the face of the status quo.
Plus, and I think this is oft overlooked, slavery takes consistency. Day in, day out repetition, devotion, selflessness and discipline. In a world where it is difficult to find someone who can show up for work on time for a week solid, this is a rare and valuable trait.

I hate to be cynical about people, but there are lots of quick talkers and few doers, and fewer still are capable of consistency. Being a slave is a full time job. Is it natural as skin? Sure, but that doesn't mean that it still can be demanding. It takes a strong person to be willing to make that level of commitment, and then are capable of following through with action.

(Why do I keep thinking about that ad for the Jack Black Stone Age movie in my head-you know the one where Michael Cera is trying to pick up the slave chick:
Cera-When are you off?
Hot Slave girl-I'm a slave. I'm never off.

I loved that ad.)

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 9:59:10 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

...Same goes for Beth, a woman I see as anything but a "doormat" despite her self identifying as such...


indeed, there are folks who won't see this slave as His "slave", either...because regardless of the FACT that there is no one-true-defintion-that-fits-all for slave, their own personal perception and prejudices preclude them from acknowledging it's legitimacy.
we each operate under our own individual realities. this slave has been hanging out with herself for her entire life...and she can tell you, without hesitation, she's held down the role of slave, and even doormat for that matter, without anyone ever referring to her as either.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 10:05:19 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

It takes a strong person to be willing to make that level of commitment, and then are capable of following through with action.



Plenty of weak bottoms/slaves/submissives/property stay in crappy relationships and "honor" that committment and plenty of strong intelligent women walk out because the FOUNDATION for that commitment either wasn't built or was lost somewhere along the way.

That statement puts all the guilt on the slave because if they can't obey then they are weak which is bullshit. Relationships take TWO people (or more) and if one isn't holding up their end then "breaking" that committment might take far more strength. It leaves the top/dominant/master/owner without any responsiblity for creating a relationship WORTHY of that committment.

I think what REALLY takes strength is to sit down with your partner and say "this isn't working, lets fix it together because I want what we have but THIS part isn't working for me" and having a partner who doesn't get defensive or reactive in some way and says "great, lets roll up our sleeves and fix it" is how that foundation is built.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 10:11:04 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...Same goes for Beth, a woman I see as anything but a "doormat" despite her self identifying as such...


indeed, there are folks who won't see this slave as His "slave", either...because regardless of the FACT that there is no one-true-defintion-that-fits-all for slave, their own personal perception and prejudices preclude them from acknowledging it's legitimacy.
we each operate under our own individual realities. this slave has been hanging out with herself for her entire life...and she can tell you, without hesitation, she's held down the role of slave, and even doormat for that matter, without anyone ever referring to her as either.



Beth, if some Gorean kidnapped you and lost his grip between worlds and instead of being transported to another planet, you went back in time would you act the same way in those previous relationships and or remain in them? Perhaps I am wrong but while you are so very clearly HIS doormat, I just don't see you as accepting that from a lesser man ever again.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 10:17:48 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Errrrrrr, Micheal, I think you are reading something into what I was saying that in no way comes close to what was meant.

And sheesh, that should say " then be capable, not are capable." I need to edit better.



GuessIneedtogobacktolegalese,alloponionsexpressedarethatoftheweilder.theyarebasedonexperience,opinions,thetide,goodteas,backrubsandwhateversnarkinessleveltheownersohappenstofeelatthetrime.theyareinnowaaytoberegardedasanythingbut.inotherwords,readatyourownrisk,caveatemptorbaby.


< Message edited by Kana -- 2/26/2010 10:23:32 AM >

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RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 10:45:51 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm not a slave, I have assets that need protection and children who I cannot turn over the responsibility for.

But I have that level of intimacy, openness, vulnerability and need that the op fears.

It isn't having it, it's having it with the right person.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to UniqueRaven)
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RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 11:03:36 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbt30UnzRWw&feature=related


This will make you beg to be a slave, OP

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 11:54:38 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Are we all back to what's a real slave/sub again?

People's dogs behave differently. Do we say, "That's not a true dog. A real dog would have come when he called and heeled"? Or do we notice some people handle their dogs differently? And does it bother anyone that different people expect different things of their dogs for different reasons. And yet--they're still all dogs being dogs.

A girl is a girl, choosing as she does because of her nature and because of what her owner inspires and trains her to be. That's gonna vary quite a bit. In fact, of course it should vary quite a bit.

I'll never get the need to push it all into one small tightly wrapped box.

(I prefer pushing into unwrapped boxes....ahem......)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 1:54:32 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		FR.

i will read the whole thread, just i dont have time right now.

never at any time as a slave did i ever feel that i was losing myself or felt in any way more emotionally vulnerable than in any other relationship.

we are talking about emotions here, those are the things that make you vulnerable to losing a person you deeply love and/or are connected to, that vulnerability happens across the whole relationship prism and has no more to do with being a slave, submissive or mainstream.

to answer youre question specifically, my fears dont exist anymore because i am strong enough in myself to handle handing it all over. that might sound a bit of a wild statement, but it really isnt. ive earned the certainty inside of me to know what i can give, how much and why. turns out i can give alot, i want to give alot, its the only way it works for me. limits dont really come into it if youre well matched.

im not scared of being emotionally hurt or of leaning on someone so hard that if they stepped away id fall flat on my face. ive been where you were, my son kept me alive. nothing will ever be that bad again.

that was unhealthy vulnerability. what i seek is healthy, fun, horny vulnerability with a man who wants to suck it all up and feed from it.

ive worked hard on being irrepressable. its the best thing i can offer, it gives them the freedom to be themselves and i can fly with that badge on my shoulder. i am irrepressable, noone will ever break me down again. so i can give everything now, no holes barred and with that comes a freedom where it doesnt matter if its submissive or enslavement, you can call it whatever you like, it makes no odds to me.



_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
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RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 3:01:58 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Owned thank you so much for your reply, what an excellent and beautiful answer. You make an excellent point of in the last paragraph about using the fear to keep myself safe. Thank you again for your reply.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 3:13:40 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you for that excellent reply. You are correct, although the first two items are fears to me, the biggest one is that last one that i mentioned. i have always hated anyone seeing me weak and vulnerable, and beyond that what happens if someone sees me that way and then rejects me because i am too weak, too needy or if seeing me at my weakest somehow disgusts them.

You mentioned your response to having the whole of a person, would that reaction that i fear be the "ttypical" response from a Dominant.

Thank you again for your reply,
heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 3:40:44 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

My pleasure, heartfelt.

I hope this thread is helping; I think it is a wonderful thread. I think that maybe the phrase "Afraid to be a slave" may be a little misleading. This is my own perspective, but for me, being a slave is about expressing who I am at my core. To be a slave in a relationship with my Lord means that I have to show him the core of who I am. And not only just show him but open the door and let him poke around in there and be who he is. To me that is the scary stuff. It wouldn't matter if who I am was a slave, daddy's girl, submissive, dominant, etc., sharing the core of myself with another human being is scary. There are some things about myself that even I don't like and yet he loves me and embraces me because of them and not in spite of them. That is where the fear is at for me.

Are you afraid to be a slave or are you afraid to be completely vulnerable and open with your partner? A little different perspective that may help or may just muddy the waters more *g*

Knight's Kyra


Kyra,

Thank you again for your reply. The answer to your question would probably be both, but most of the fear of the first part, being a slave, has to do with no longer having the control to keep the second from happening. Yes, there is the more minor fear of not having money for my retirement years if my "hypothetical Master" were someone like Merc (this is not an attack, merely a reference) who wants from his slave, to not work outside the home, to have no other "master" of my time. But the bigger fear is that latter, to be completely open and vulnerable before another person. i know how dark it is in there at times, and how weak i can really be behind what is sometimes merely a facade of strength and i am not sure if someone else knew that too, if they would reject me or not.

i was taught from my childhood not to be too much trouble, and when my brothers and sisters and i became too much trouble to my dad. i do not say that because of some childhood misguided perception of fault, but rather from his own statement when he left that he had given us kids 17 years of his life (my older brother was 17) and that was all he was going to give us. Since that time, i have gone out of my way, worked like crazy to never be too much work to be with, born loads that i was dying to share, but there was no one to share it with.

So though i do want to give up being the strong one all the time, i am also afraid that i would be asking too much to do so.

So hopefully that answered the question. Thank you again for giving me things to think about with your excellent replies.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 3:42:43 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedbyPF

Just a fast reply thingy here....

I didn't mean to stir any kind of anything up with my question about a slaves ability to function later. I meant it as a sincere question! Probably I should have posted it elsewhere, it just popped out because of having just seen it. Sooo anyhow, sorry for the thread jack, and I really hope, Whiplash, that you didn't think I was being snarky... I was being entirely genuine in my inquiry!
~s


Owned, I appreciated and enjoyed your insightful coin flip and toss back at me. :-) It was an A++ quality response, 100% genuine. It's posts like yours that truely makes a real difference.

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to ownedbyPF)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Afraid To Be A Slave - 2/26/2010 3:43:20 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		No, this is not about a "real" slave/sub. It was about dealing with some of my own issues that keep me from being a slave, although i have a desire for that deep inside.

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 80
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