quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Oh Popeye, look around you. Jesus might be right around the corner. Maybe if he was right there you may not know it.

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well, he hasn't been around in about 2,000 years has he?
You'd think he'd stop by once in a while to say hello or to knock on someone's door and sit down on the front porch and sip some lemonade.
"So Jesus, how's things in Heaven?"
"Don't ask!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva
Daniel 9:24-27 
"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
"So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate." (Daniel 9:24-27).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva

First, christ is an english word based on the greek kristos (sp?) which came from the hebrew word masiah meaning annointed one (another qualification jesus does not fullfill). Christ then means anointed one, not 'enlightened'.

Second, can you provide a good reason for gnostic texts to be tacken into account?

Third, it would seem that if you remove jesus as a god, then the mainstream god is removed as well. Mainstream christianity today is based on the idea of the trinity. Without jesus that trinity does not exist and thus that version of god does not.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

I would be curious to know what people think is the difference it would make.
K.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


What if God was one of us, just a stranger on a bus.....

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ORIGINAL: NewOCDaddy

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


What if God was one of us, just a stranger on a bus.....

.......He would always have exact change.

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ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva
Daniel 9:24-27 
"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
"So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate." (Daniel 9:24-27).

As an excerpt without context this is difficult to interpret. I do get the impression, though, that this excerpt is not about a person.

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva

First, christ is an english word based on the greek kristos (sp?) which came from the hebrew word masiah meaning annointed one (another qualification jesus does not fullfill). Christ then means anointed one, not 'enlightened'.

Second, can you provide a good reason for gnostic texts to be tacken into account?

Third, it would seem that if you remove jesus as a god, then the mainstream god is removed as well. Mainstream christianity today is based on the idea of the trinity. Without jesus that trinity does not exist and thus that version of god does not.

The question was

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I would be curious to know what people think is the difference it would make.
K.

But it seems curious to me that you seem to assert that the only God that could exist is a "mainstream Christian" god and if Jesus isn't THE Messiah, then it proves God can't exist.  What rubbish.

You further suggest that the only texts worth reading are those approved Protestant canon.  More rubbish.  That would be like telling people that they cannot read any books outside of what was approved in their university curriculum.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I persued a similar line, taking classes such as the psychology of religion, sociology of religion, and ethics of religion, but complemented this with specific classes on the world religions. I agree with your assesment that there is no veracity to the abrahamic texts, but it's best to know them so one can say why that is the case.

This is not something I would choose for a forum topic...

One, it takes a long time to type out well reasoned and researched posts to support a position... (I do not have that time, and I do not think most people on a BDSM site would want to devote that much time to this topic, could be wrong)

Most people here do not have the same knowledge base as people who took butt loads of classes on the subject

And whilst I agree it is nice to have theological background to whatever religion a person chooses to study, I would never choose Christianity... perhaps Taoism...

My masters thesis is going to be about sacral language used to describe national parks by those who use them... so it is partially religion/linguistics/ethnography... basically three branches of anthropology further complicated by the fact I am in an applied program[:D]

Edited to add, throw in a little bit of environmental anthropology into the mix....lol

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ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva

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ORIGINAL: Rule

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ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva
Daniel 9:24-27 
"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
"So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate." (Daniel 9:24-27).

As an excerpt without context this is difficult to interpret. I do get the impression, though, that this excerpt is not about a person.

Then we're in agreement, and that passage doesn't reffer to a messiah.

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ORIGINAL: Rule

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ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva

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ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva
Daniel 9:24-27 
"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
"So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate." (Daniel 9:24-27).

As an excerpt without context this is difficult to interpret. I do get the impression, though, that this excerpt is not about a person.

Then we're in agreement, and that passage doesn't reffer to a messiah.

No, we are not in agreement. The passage clearly does refer to a Messiah - however, my impression (I may be wrong) is that this Messiah is not a person.

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ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

That is true.

The Torah is filled with all sorts of untrue crap also... So what is the point of arguing whether Jesus fulfilled it or not, isn't that sort of meaningless?

From an athiest or non-abrahamic persepcive yes, yes it is. But from the perspective of a biblical scholar or a believing christain it can be a very interesting and/or pivitol point

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If you like Taoism, pick up the Tao of Pooh

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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If you like Taoism, pick up the Tao of Pooh

My Daddy just gave me his copy. I haven't read it yet

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ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva

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ORIGINAL: Rule

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ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva
Daniel 9:24-27 
"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
"So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate." (Daniel 9:24-27).

As an excerpt without context this is difficult to interpret. I do get the impression, though, that this excerpt is not about a person.

Then we're in agreement, and that passage doesn't reffer to a messiah.

No, we are not in agreement. The passage clearly does refer to a Messiah - however, my impression (I may be wrong) is that this Messiah is not a person.

Then, you agree that this passage that Thadius provided does not support jesus as a messiah?

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ORIGINAL: Rule

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ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva

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ORIGINAL: Rule

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ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhisatva
Daniel 9:24-27 
"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
"So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate." (Daniel 9:24-27).

As an excerpt without context this is difficult to interpret. I do get the impression, though, that this excerpt is not about a person.

Then we're in agreement, and that passage doesn't reffer to a messiah.

No, we are not in agreement. The passage clearly does refer to a Messiah - however, my impression (I may be wrong) is that this Messiah is not a person.

Then, you agree that this passage that Thadius provided does not support jesus as a messiah?

Not necessarily so. If I am correct then Thadius - and the Jews, and also Jesus - erroneously concluded that it did refer to a person, resulting in the Jews expecting a Messiah person and in Jesus being fortunate and feeling obliged to make use of this happily provided opportunity to modernize the pagan Jewish religion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matthew 22:36-40

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1 Corinthians 13

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.