RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids

RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (Full Version)

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Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 7:47:52 PM)
quote: Please show me where I have ever called you a nit-picking dickhead. Think again.

Aylee -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 7:49:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Question? My response was that the federal government did NOT institute public schools. And I asked you what verb you wanted to use instead of institute? and. Is it your position that the federal government is not involved in public education? Since the federal government has becomed more involved with public education, the quality has decreased. When did the federal government first become involved with the public education system? Do you have any validation to confirm that the quality has decreased? First become involved? In the 19th century. They up'ed their involvement in the 50's and 60's, and then with the DOE became overwhelmingly involved. Decrease in quality? Pull up a chart that shows student ranking amoung countries.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 7:57:05 PM)
quote: You have yet to show any proof or any indication that business will lower prices if taxes are reduced. I point out an obvious fact that business routinely engages in practices that diminish the consumers choices to the consumers detriment. Are you happy with that? Once again you are missing the point. Some will (for a variety of reasons), some won't (for a variety of reasons) and so what? As long as they are not breaking any laws, I don't care what businesses do. I don't seek to micromanage society (ie, people's lives). I don't think the government should either. quote: In the real world the primary goal of the corporation is to maximise profits...not to make a superior product at a competitive price. I said businesses, not corporrations (there are many kinds of businesses). Even so, a corporation that makes a shoddy product at a price consumers are not willing to pay is never going to maximize profits. Not everyone who wears a business suit is evil. To believe so is nothing more than bigotry.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 7:58:17 PM)
quote: Paying rent is not voluntary. If you contract to rent an apartment you are obligated to pay whether you live in it or not No one held a gun to my head when I signed the lease.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 8:22:11 PM)
Okay, so you admit that private schools are better (in most cases) than public schools (you're wrong about the home schooling but we'll let that go for now). So what's your problem? The reason that comparing public schooling to no schooling is silly is because anything can look better compared to nothing. If you are really hungry what's better - a bag of food, or nothing? I am not saying that the public school system has not largely been a force for the betterment of people throughout most of our history. I am saying that today, they are largely failing to produce well educated citizens. I am also saying that, regardless of how well they may or may not do, people should not have to submit to the state's (using "state" in the general term of a nation or government) ideal of a proper education.

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 8:28:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: Please show me where I have ever called you a nit-picking dickhead. Think again. Is this your cute little way of apologizing?

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 8:34:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Question? My response was that the federal government did NOT institute public schools. And I asked you what verb you wanted to use instead of institute? and. Is it your position that the federal government is not involved in public education? Since the federal government has becomed more involved with public education, the quality has decreased. When did the federal government first become involved with the public education system? Do you have any validation to confirm that the quality has decreased? First become involved? In the 19th century. So that would be sometime in a 100 year time span...would it be possible for you to be a little more specific? They up'ed their involvement in the 50's and 60's, and then with the DOE became overwhelmingly involved. Decrease in quality? Pull up a chart that shows student ranking amoung countries. Maybe you could pull up a chart that compared it with itself which would be a more useful parameter since other countries educational systems would have different origins and goals.

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 8:40:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: You have yet to show any proof or any indication that business will lower prices if taxes are reduced. I point out an obvious fact that business routinely engages in practices that diminish the consumers choices to the consumers detriment. Are you happy with that? Once again you are missing the point. Some will (for a variety of reasons), some won't (for a variety of reasons) and so what? As long as they are not breaking any laws, I don't care what businesses do. I don't seek to micromanage society (ie, people's lives). I don't think the government should either. quote: In the real world the primary goal of the corporation is to maximise profits...not to make a superior product at a competitive price. I said businesses, not corporrations (there are many kinds of businesses). Even so, a corporation that makes a shoddy product at a price consumers are not willing to pay is never going to maximize profits. Not everyone who wears a business suit is evil. To believe so is nothing more than bigotry. You posit that if taxes on business are raised then those taxes will be passed on to consumers. I asked you if the corolary to that premis would be that if taxes on business were lowered then they would lower the price to the consumer. You then do the sweetest "texas two step" that I have ever seen and tell me that I do not "understand" This is a discussion not a dance so it would appear that you are incapable of defending your position.

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 8:41:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: Paying rent is not voluntary. If you contract to rent an apartment you are obligated to pay whether you live in it or not No one held a gun to my head when I signed the lease. So you agree that I am right. You need to pay your rent whether you use the apt. or not.

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 8:48:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b Okay, so you admit that private schools are better (in most cases) than public schools This was never part of the objection I made to your statements. If you feel that this somehow has made you a "winner" please disabuse yourself of that notion. quote: (you're wrong about the home schooling but we'll let that go for now). Then produce some proof. quote: So what's your problem? The reason that comparing public schooling to no schooling is silly is because anything can look better compared to nothing. If you are really hungry what's better - a bag of food, or nothing? Did you not know that more than ninety percent of our population was not being educated in private schools? quote: I am not saying that the public school system has not largely been a force for the betterment of people throughout most of our history. I am saying that today, they are largely failing to produce well educated citizens. So far you have been unable to validate that statement with anything except your opinion. I am sure your mom values your opinion I on the other hand require something a bit more substantial. quote: I am also saying that, regardless of how well they may or may not do, people should not have to submit to the state's (using "state" in the general term of a nation or government) ideal of a proper education. You have mentioned this moronic concept several times but so far you have been unable to offer any meaningful solution. Just which classes would you remove from the public school caricula?

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 8:52:31 PM)
quote: You do realize that home schooled children do need to be able to pass standardized testing, right? So that means that people ARE qualified to make these decisions about the educational needs of children. I have no doubt in my mind at this point that you aren't qualified to make that decision for anyone. However, groups of educators who have years of experience have gotten together and determined what children need to learn to be successful in society, and you know what? I don't care if John and Mary Doe don't think their kids don't need to learn that stuff, because THE LAW of the society we live in has decided that John and Mary Doe's kids must learn those things. The Law also permits John and Mary Doe to teach those things to their children in a home schooling environment if they choose to and they are qualified to do so. If they aren't, they guess what? John and Mary Doe's kids must accept the only other alternative available to them to learn what is mandated by attending public school. You just don’t get it, so never mind. quote: This is the society that we have. It works in the best interests of the children. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept it or get the hell out of that particular society. Love it or leave it, huh? quote: Actually, you stated that No. I have not said that parents don’t have a right to not educate their children. I have said that parents have the right to be the primary deciders of what the bulk of that education should be. The "bulk" of education in dispute is Evolution versus Creationism. The "bulk" of what children are required to learn is NOT Evolution versus Creationism. Okay, you’ve lost me here. I really don’t see your point. quote: Sure I have. You have attempted to make your point. At some point, you need to recognize that no one is listening to you and basically stop posting the same thing over and over. It serves no purpose. Then why do you keep posting about it? quote: Actually it has become more like nails on a chalkboard. Never mind. quote: Well since you obviously don't understand, I will explain (again). You made your point, repeatedly. Not one person has agreed with you. So? quote: Repeating the same things over and over (and over and over) is really doing nothing to further support your opinion, If people didn’t keep asking the same questions I wouldn’t need to keep repeating myself. quote: and actually are doing nothing but wasting your time (which I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that your time is valuable). Well it’s nice to know that you give me credit for something. quote: So "cutting your losses" would be to stop wasting your time trying to prove your point when no one is listening. The irony is that I was getting ready to abandon this thread until you and Thompson came along (him and me like to have this same wrestling match every so often – it’s the old authoritarian versus anti-authoritarian tangle). quote: You have successfully completely derailed this thread to present your opinion with a complete disregard to the OP. So not only have you managed to become like a broken record repeating the sound of nails on a chalk board, you have also shown that you have little respect for others by derailing the thread. I have presented my opinion on the asylum issue and others continue to do so. As for the OP, she’s a grown woman – I doubt she’s huddled in the closet crying over it. I have that much respect for her.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 8:55:07 PM)
quote: Is this your cute little way of apologizing? No. It's my cute little way of asking you to think about what a dyslexic person might take offense at.

thornhappy -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 8:55:51 PM)
It doesn't work that way for charter schools, at least in Ohio. On average they were no better than the public schools, and a bunch were worse. quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b I could list all sorts of studies from a variety of sources that document the fact that public schools by and large (I'm sure there are some exceptions) simply do not produce students that are as well educated as students who attend private schools or are home schooled.

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 8:55:51 PM)
The irony is that I was getting ready to abandon this thread until you and Thompson came along (him and me like to have this same wrestling match every so often – it’s the old authoritarian versus anti-authoritarian tangle). Not so. I only disagree with you when you are wrong.

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 9:00:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: Is this your cute little way of apologizing? No. It's my cute little way of asking you to think about what a dyslexic person might take offense at. I am not dyslexic. I have not called you a nit picking dick head which you seem to feel is your perogative. I have pointed out that calling people names is a poor substitute for discussion.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 9:07:18 PM)
quote: You posit that if taxes on business are raised then those taxes will be passed on to consumers. I asked you if the corolary to that premis would be that if taxes on business were lowered then they would lower the price to the consumer. And now (much to the vexation of LafayetteLady, no doubt) I repeat my answer: some will, some won't. quote: You then do the sweetest "texas two step" that I have ever seen and tell me that I do not "understand" This is a discussion not a dance so it would appear that you are incapable of defending your position. Then I will try again to make you understand. You - seemingly - believe that certain groups of people (eg fundametalist Christians) or orginizations (eg corporations) are automatically evil and base you political thinking on that. They must learn this whether they like it or not, they must pay more taxes because they are so greedy. It is bigotry and it is no less destructive or wrong than bigotry against racial groups. You - again, seemingly - believe that society must be micro-managed for the good of society. I reject that because any such society cannot be a free society.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 9:13:09 PM)
quote: So you agree that I am right. You need to pay your rent whether you use the apt. or not. Sigh. It was a voluntary choice in the first place. Nor was I compelled to choose that particular apartment. That is why it doesn't work as an anlolgy for compulsary education. I had enough of this sidebar.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 9:15:19 PM)
quote: It doesn't work that way for charter schools, at least in Ohio. On average they were no better than the public schools, and a bunch were worse. Well, that's Ohio's problem and I'll leave it up to the good people of Ohio to fix it.

Aylee -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 9:16:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: It doesn't work that way for charter schools, at least in Ohio. On average they were no better than the public schools, and a bunch were worse. Well, that's Ohio's problem and I'll leave it up to the good people of Ohio to fix it. YAY for State's rights in education!

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/15/2010 9:18:12 PM)
quote: Not so. I only disagree with you when you are wrong. But I am never wrong. I am one hundred percent right all the time. Thank God the internet was invented so I could spend my nights correcting everyone else in the world. But don't worry, enrollment in the Marc2b school of enlightment is strictly voluntary, not compulsary.

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