RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids

RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

tazzygirl -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 6:26:50 AM)
quote: I do not respect your right to oppress others simply because you dislike their view of the world. Every home schooler I’ve ever known or read about pays for the home schooling out of their own pocket in addition to paying school taxes. So the taxpayers are not loosing out (although they should, I see no reason why somebody should have to pay twice for education). Just wanted to correct this small point. Yes, they still pay taxes. As such they are entitled to have the school based curriculum, at no cost to the parents... or they can use their own. If they use their own, they have to pay for it. If the parents use the school based one, the school must provide all teaching materials.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 6:41:03 AM)
quote: Just wanted to correct this small point. Yes, they still pay taxes. As such they are entitled to have the school based curriculum, at no cost to the parents... or they can use their own. If they use their own, they have to pay for it. If the parents use the school based one, the school must provide all teaching materials. The taxes are the costs. Not everyone pays school taxes (which are usually property taxes) but if someone owns property and wants to homeschool (or use a private school) they are essentially paying twice.

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 8:32:41 AM)
quote: I believe that parents have the right to be the primary (not sole) deciders on how best to educate their children. Parents think people and dinasours lived at the same time. The state school says not so. Which do you want taught to the child

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 8:48:59 AM)
quote: Not everyone pays school taxes (which are usually property taxes) but if someone owns property and wants to homeschool (or use a private school) they are essentially paying twice. Is it your position that a property owner would not include the taxes with the principle and interest when he adds the profit to the price of a rental unit? If not then the property owner would necessarily take the taxes out of the profit which would also have come from the rentor. Unless you live under a bridge or in an appliance box you pay property tax. So yes rentors also pay for public schools. The public school is something we as a nation have decided we want to pay for just like public sewers. If you choose an alternative method of schooling or disposing of your sewege you have that choice but you do not have the option of opting out of your taxes.

cadenas -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 10:39:58 AM)
It seems to me that unspoken, this is really about evolution. But saying "it's about home schooling" sounds a lot more politically correct here in the USA. Home schooling is illegal in Germany, but the parents could have started their own school - especially since the father apparently is a qualified and licensed teacher. However, even a private school still has to comply with the state's official curriculum - and that includes evolution (as well as sex ed). Schools can differentiate themselves pretty much only by how they teach, but don't have much flexibility in what they teach. As for granting them asylum: come on! We deny asylum to a Jordanian woman who face an "honor killing" for marrying the wrong man because "it's just a personal problem" (as the immigration judge in that case stated) but we grant asylum to people who fear nothing more than their children learning about science? quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100302/us_time/09171196809900 I am curious how others view this. Memphis Court case -- Quick summary -- Its about a German family who racked up $10,000 in fines in Germany and police were escorting the children to school because the parents wanted to homeschool them because they didn't like what their children were learning in school and its illegal to do that in German. So the family moved to the US in 2008 and is now seeking asylum to remain. As far as i know, there were no arrests or harrassment, simply the fines (which doesn't indicate if they were paid) and police escorting the children to school.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 11:19:53 AM)
quote: Parents think people and dinasours lived at the same time. The state school says not so. Which do you want taught to the child I would like to see evolution taught to the child. But what I would like is not the point. The point is whether or not I am willing to violate somebody's religious rights in order to satisfy my notions of what is a proper education. I am not.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 11:29:14 AM)
quote: Is it your position that a property owner would not include the taxes with the principle and interest when he adds the profit to the price of a rental unit? If not then the property owner would necessarily take the taxes out of the profit which would also have come from the rentor. Unless you live under a bridge or in an appliance box you pay property tax. So yes rentors also pay for public schools. The public school is something we as a nation have decided we want to pay for just like public sewers. If you choose an alternative method of schooling or disposing of your sewege you have that choice but you do not have the option of opting out of your taxes. Oh my God! This is incredible. This is a red letter day. I do believe this is the first time I have ever seen you acknowledge that taxes get passed on to the consumer. Does this mean that you finally realize how silly it is to increase taxes on businesses? Hmmm… I’m not going to hold my breath. Renter or property owner the principle still applies. I don’t know of many people who use alternate sewage disposal systems but there are many people who don’t use the public school systems. So why should they have to pay for something they are not using (and a pretty shoddy service at that)?

tazzygirl -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 11:38:10 AM)
Because education has been made mandatory in this country. People have the option to homeschool their children. They even have the option to do so free of charge by using the districts curriculumn and the schools books. They also have the option of using their own. Each state mandates what has to be taught. Then, at the end of the school year, a test is given to all homeschoolers ( at least in the states i have lived), at which time the student must show competency in certain subjects. Its not just as simple as tugging them out of school and labeling it homeschooling. BUT, just like those who opt to private school, they as well as the homeschooling parents still pay taxes to ensure the option is always there for the students who return. Its like for fire and police.... i may never have to call them... but my taxes ensure they will be there if i have too.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 11:48:09 AM)
quote: Because education has been made mandatory in this country. People have the option to homeschool their children. They even have the option to do so free of charge by using the districts curriculumn and the schools books. They also have the option of using their own. Each state mandates what has to be taught. Then, at the end of the school year, a test is given to all homeschoolers ( at least in the states i have lived), at which time the student must show competency in certain subjects. Its not just as simple as tugging them out of school and labeling it homeschooling. BUT, just like those who opt to private school, they as well as the homeschooling parents still pay taxes to ensure the option is always there for the students who return. Its like for fire and police.... i may never have to call them... but my taxes ensure they will be there if i have too. I am not disagreeing with any of that. I am merely stating my opinion that I think it is unfair that people should have to pay twice for something. The fact that they have to locks out poorer people from pursuing better educational opportunities.

mikeyOfGeorgia -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 12:05:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef They want to be closer to you, Mikey. ~stef Then they're crazy...LOL

stef -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 12:49:36 PM)
Can't argue with that. ~stef

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 1:27:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: Parents think people and dinasours lived at the same time. The state school says not so. Which do you want taught to the child I would like to see evolution taught to the child. But what I would like is not the point. The point is whether or not I am willing to violate somebody's religious rights in order to satisfy my notions of what is a proper education. I am not. No, what you want to do is find an issue that has no either or soultion. You do not offer a solution. Yet continue to complane. What the fuck would you do if you were king? If all you have is "its not fair" then fucking add it to the list.

calamitysandra -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 1:35:20 PM)
Okay, I will try again. Where is the line? At which point does the childs right to the best possible education supersede the parents rights to make decisions about the kids education? And is it really possible to argue that an minimum of reading, writing, math is enough in todays world? And how about those US states that have no oversight? Do they violate the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child?

thompsonx -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/11/2010 1:43:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: Is it your position that a property owner would not include the taxes with the principle and interest when he adds the profit to the price of a rental unit? If not then the property owner would necessarily take the taxes out of the profit which would also have come from the rentor. Unless you live under a bridge or in an appliance box you pay property tax. So yes rentors also pay for public schools. The public school is something we as a nation have decided we want to pay for just like public sewers. If you choose an alternative method of schooling or disposing of your sewege you have that choice but you do not have the option of opting out of your taxes. Oh my God! This is incredible. This is a red letter day. I do believe this is the first time I have ever seen you acknowledge that taxes get passed on to the consumer. I acknowledge that this tax is passed on to the consumer in most cases. You want to make that mean something else...Why? quote: Does this mean that you finally realize how silly it is to increase taxes on businesses? Hmmm… I’m not going to hold my breath. So the corollary to your theory is that if the goverment were to remove all taxes from business then the price of all goods and services would go down by that amount? quote: Renter or property owner the principle still applies. I don’t know of many people who use alternate sewage disposal systems They are called composting toilets and they are used in places where new building permits are tied to the size of the sewege treatment facility or where there are septic tanks. quote: but there are many people who don’t use the public school systems. So why should they have to pay for something they are not using You live here so you ipso facto have an implied contract with the government. You live in an apartment and pay rent...you go out of town for a few days you still pay rent on the apartment even when you are not using it. quote: (and a pretty shoddy service at that)? As compared to what?

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/12/2010 3:46:50 AM)
quote: No, what you want to do is find an issue that has no either or soultion. You do not offer a solution. Yet continue to complane. Most problems (real or perceived) do not have “solutions,” only trade offs. quote: What the fuck would you do if you were king? I would order my Royal guard to seize Aileen1968, bathe her, and bring her to me. quote: If all you have is "its not fair" then fucking add it to the list. No shit.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/12/2010 3:57:43 AM)
quote: I acknowledge that this tax is passed on to the consumer in most cases. You want to make that mean something else...Why? After all the battles we’ve had over taxes in the past, I just find it astounding that you finally acknowledge that all taxes are ultimately paid by the individual – whether directly, through state “fees” or through higher prices. quote: So the corollary to your theory is that if the goverment were to remove all taxes from business then the price of all goods and services would go down by that amount? No. My corollary is that the market will set the prices but that with lower taxes and therefore higher profits businesses could afford to lower their prices in hopes of attracting customers away from the competition. quote: They are called composting toilets and they are used in places where new building permits are tied to the size of the sewege treatment facility or where there are septic tanks. That’s nice. We had had a septic tank when I was growing up. We still had to pay a yearly inspection fee to the town for the privilege of having a septic tank. quote: You live here so you ipso facto have an implied contract with the government. You live in an apartment and pay rent...you go out of town for a few days you still pay rent on the apartment even when you are not using it. When I leave my apartment for a few days I am still using it – to keep all of my stuff in. quote: As compared to what? To most private schools and most home schooling families that I know or have heard about.

Marc2b -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/12/2010 4:35:45 AM)
quote: Okay, I will try again. Where is the line? At which point does the childs right to the best possible education supersede the parents rights to make decisions about the kids education? And is it really possible to argue that an minimum of reading, writing, math is enough in todays world? And how about those US states that have no oversight? Do they violate the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child? Is this supposed to be meant for me? If so, then: I don’t know what constitutes the “best possible education.” People have different notions of what that would be. That is why I prefer to stay out of other people’s lives as much as possible and leave it to them to make those decisions. As for the U.N., they are not our government so who gives a fuck what they have to say?

calamitysandra -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/12/2010 7:17:59 AM)
You might want to give a fuck, as your government is a signatory to said convention. Oh, and it was not to you especially, more general, but I appreciate the response.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/12/2010 8:15:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: Just wanted to correct this small point. Yes, they still pay taxes. As such they are entitled to have the school based curriculum, at no cost to the parents... or they can use their own. If they use their own, they have to pay for it. If the parents use the school based one, the school must provide all teaching materials. The taxes are the costs. Not everyone pays school taxes (which are usually property taxes) but if someone owns property and wants to homeschool (or use a private school) they are essentially paying twice. Yes, everyone pays school taxes. Just because you don't own property, doesn't mean you aren't paying property taxes. The rent that you pay to your landlord, a portion is typically used to pay the taxes on the property. Sure it goes the long way around to get there, but it still gets there. A public school education is every child's right and provided for free. If someone chooses to home school their children, or send them to private school at their expense, they don't get to be absolved of the school tax, nor should they. They are making a choice. If you have food at home and decide to eat at a restaurant, are you paying twice for dinner? No, you made a choice. Part of your property taxes will also be used in your municipality to keep the roads in good shape, to plow the snow away, etc. If you don't have a car, should you not have to pay? Not all towns have a yearly septic inspection. I know mine doesn't. I know this because I know that the septic is in violation. I'm a renter though, so it isn't my responsibility to fix it. You want to support a parent's right to not teach their child evolution. But where does the parent's right to decide stop? That is the question that you can't answer. What if they feel their child doesn't need to know math? Or Language Arts? Do they have the right to not teach their child History? Do they have the right to teach their child that World Wars one and two never really happened? What about space exploration? Do they have the right to decide they don't want their children to learn that? You admitted several pages ago that when these children become adults and are suddenly confronted with these alternate theories, what a shock it will be. This certainly will go against the best interest of the children, yet you feel it is a parent's right to do so? That's bordering on neglect. If you want to say that a parent has the right to decide what their children learn or don't learn, then they can also decide NOT to educate their children as well. Somewhere there has to be a line in the sand of what is or is not right. The reality is that a parent who wants to home school their child specifically because of their disagreement with evolution is that they are afraid and not confident in their own ability as parents. They fear that if their children are presented with an alternate theory about the world, they might believe it. They don't have their children's best interest in mind at all. I actually once had a discussion with my mother, a devout born again Christian, about how the theory of evolution and creationism could mesh together. I wish I remembered her explanation, because it was a good one. The point is we ALL want the best for our kids. We ALL want to shield them from the harsh realities of life for as long as we can. If someone wants to homeschool their children, and they have the necessary intelligent to do so and can prove it, they should be able to. My ex husband has an IQ of 74, had he wanted to home school our son, he obviously isn't capable of doing so properly. There are scores of other parents who are intellectually challenged just as much as him, but who want to home school their kids. It isn't in the best interest of the children. The best interest of the child supercedes the rights of the parents. The "best interest" is decided by the majority of society. The same majority of society that decides what should be legal or not legal. It's really that simple.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Seeking Asylum now in the US so they can homeschool their kids (3/12/2010 8:56:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Okay does the current discussion have anything to do with the asylum seeking issue? Can someone quickly answer that for me as i have read a couple of the recent responses and i cannot determine if they are speaking regarding asylum and homeschooling here in the US or simply debating the concept of homeschooling here in the US. Thanks, angel angel, As usual, the thread has taken a drastic turn away from the main point. Home schooling is a hot bed type of subject with people going to all kinds of extremes one way or another. Sadly that means that a lot of people who are staunch supporters of home schooling are so blinded by their belief that the German parents should have the right to teach their children how they see fit, they have no problem with them being granted asylum and can't see why it makes no sense. I believe in home schooling. I also believe that parents should have the right to "opt out" of having their children participate in certain subjects, even the theory of evolution, along with sex education and biology class where dissection is a requirement. On the whole, those are very small parts of a proper education. At the end of the day though, this German family should not have been allowed in this country on the basis of being able to home school their children. When the law on asylum was written, the spirit of what they meant by "oppression" didn't include being able to home school your children. Most especially since they had more than one or two options within Europe that would allow them to do so. You and I both know that the group that brought them over here couldn't care less about this family's desire to home school. They have their own agenda and this family is a pawn to help them promote that agenda. Hopefully, this case will be overturned on appeal and the family will be forced to return to Europe.

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.078125