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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 1:45:57 PM

Lorenzo19

Posts: 237
Joined: 2/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

Why people think this sort of stuff works is beyond me. It doesn't work when training animals, it doesn't work when raising children, why the hell would it work on adults?

Your incredulousness doesn't surprise Me in the least. Especially coming from a Man who advocates raping a girl into submission. That takes no skill.

We can argue all day long... It starts with words and ends with words. But the real proof is in the pudding.

_____________________________

Daddy Dom & Romantic Sadist

Everything I needed to know about life I learned by killing smart people and eating thier brains.
Give Me your heart. Make it real. Or else forget about it.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 41

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 2:36:13 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tayr

I have a question that I would like to get both Dom and sub perspectives on.

As a Dominant, I sometimes have to dispense discipline. Well, this often tends to get me all worked up. Nothing like a good ol' spanking to get a Dom all horny, ya know? So, my question is on whether or not the discipline should be followed up with some gratifying sex? Is that something that would have negative effects on my submissive? Should it be avoided? Or should I just indulge my "I don't care how you feel about it" attitude and force the sex on her? The last thing I want is for my sub to start associating sex with anything negative. But I want my cake (or pie, whatever ), too. What are your opinions or experiences with this issue?

No one knows your submissive like you do...with that said:

Some people like to use "funishment". The corporal/physical discipline imposed is simply a stop on the route to sex. That doesn't sound like what you are speaking of though.

For some people, the sexual interlude after punishment is used to draw them back closer together and is not really tied into sexual feelings brought on by the delivery/reception of punishment. Not sure this is you though.

For some people, delivery/reception of punishment does not induce sexual feelings OR if it does, they are not acted upon so as to keep punishment SEPARATE from BDSM "play". This does not sound like you either but it DOES seem to be the opposite of you. I, and many others, fall into this category. I reserve a specific type of behavior for physical punishment (non-angry for the biggest part) and I do NOT use the same tools that I use to play with. Since I use physical punishment rarely and tend to be very certain that it is called for before I do, blurring of the line between play and "funishment" (false punishment given for false infractions) and genuine punishment for genuine infractions doesn't occur for me.

(in reply to Tayr)

Post #: 42

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 3:33:25 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

We can argue all day long... It starts with words and ends with words. But the real proof is in the pudding.

More than you will probably ever know and I have tasted some very fine pudding.

(in reply to Lorenzo19)

Post #: 43

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 3:42:49 PM

Lorenzo19

Posts: 237
Joined: 2/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

Really? THE most difficult thing to learn? That seems like such a strange statement to me, in all of the people that I know and have met I'd have to say that learning how to punish is not at the top of the list.

I'm not ignoring you. I'm just not quite sure what you are asking.

_____________________________

Daddy Dom & Romantic Sadist

Everything I needed to know about life I learned by killing smart people and eating thier brains.
Give Me your heart. Make it real. Or else forget about it.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 44

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 4:18:47 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Why people think this sort of stuff works is beyond me. It doesn't work when training animals, it doesn't work when raising children, why the hell would it work on adults?

I think some of them think it works for various reasons.. perhaps they had corporeal punishments inflicted on them, perhaps they lack the ability to empathize with others and "walk a mile in another's shoes", or perhaps they are idiotic and see some instantaneous response to punishment as an indication that it "worked" (kinda like torturing someone will get them to say anything you want them to say to make it stop as proof torture works).

quote:

Yes, grabbing someone who is being bitchy and spanking the hell out of them or giving them the look ON OCCASION makes things hot, reminds them of their place but really only works when it is a bit tongue in cheek, try that in the middle of a seriously emotional discussion with tempers running hot and you will see any woman worth her salt head for the door.

Amen, if someone pulled that shit on me when I was upset and not feeling "particularly" submissive it would make me want to hit them back possibly. Adrenaline from anger is not the friend of D/s.. part pf what makes someone a dominant in my opinion is channeling emotions instead of feeding them into an inferno.

quote:

Mastery, as I use the term, isn't about beating a woman into submission, any clod can do that and many do. It is about sitting them down and dealing with issues, facing them, and working through them to the other side. If someone is acting out, there is a reason and you can't beat that reason away, you need to reach inside them and pull it out of them, sometimes with soft words, sometimes with a bit of stern talk, and other times with patience. Do THAT and you can truly enslave a woman's heart.

Amen... when I read dominant people condescend about hypothetical submissives (in other words projecting into the future how they will deal with a submissive they have not met yet like we are all the same) and using words like "bratty" or "rebellious" or "smart-assed" I get to feeling sorry for whomever eventually submits to such a person. They are looking to put themselves in a position of control and authority without looking at the feelings or emotional states of the submissive, categorizing her as a way of dismissing her. I am sure there are some submissives that are "brats", but there are just as many that are fully formed, thinking, caring adults that should have their feelings dealt with using respect and a modicum of consideration.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 3/4/2010 4:19:25 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 45

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 5:11:22 PM

Hawkwindblues

Posts: 183
Joined: 6/26/2009
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline

I do not understand the question in the same realm that i do not understand the D/S crowd.

Discipline and punishment can be all and adminstered in any way imaginable.

The one that leads the situation has to be clear about the own postion, the postion of the person who is being led and the borders between the both.

If to these basic rules is adhered to, the question becomes in itself not any longer necessary.

_____________________________

After 10 years with the handle ZenDragoness it is time for a change.

(in reply to Tayr)

Post #: 46

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 5:24:53 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

To me punishment of whatever form it takes should leave her with the impression that she didn't get away with something, that the trade off between the punishment and the infraction wasn't worth it

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to Hawkwindblues)

Post #: 47

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 5:31:07 PM

Lorenzo19

Posts: 237
Joined: 2/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

that the trade off between the punishment and the infraction wasn't worth it

totally. and that's not as simple as it sounds. If the most a girl ever gets is corner time or a good talking to then a lot of infractions WILL be worth it.

_____________________________

Daddy Dom & Romantic Sadist

Everything I needed to know about life I learned by killing smart people and eating thier brains.
Give Me your heart. Make it real. Or else forget about it.

(in reply to osf)

Post #: 48

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 6:48:20 PM

JAS61

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/26/2006
Status: offline

If I am going to punish her then we will not have sex afterward. Two reasons for that is simple. If I am going to punisher her myself and not take away something she likes or have her wear her tack pads for the day. If it is a worse transgression then I will take a hand and do it myself. Not all of the time do I use the pads but it is a simple thing and is discomfort for a long time (4 to 8 hours) will remind her every movement of what she did wrong. Now if I am going to spank her or what ever the punishment is, she will know it and not want sex afterwards either. She will be upset she failed that badly and two I will be holding her talking to her adn calming her down. WHy is that I go to the break point and then slip over it. She hates a pussy whipping with a strap or the cane on her ass so I save those for the transgressions I deem serious.

So, there is not sex afterward but holding and talking and usually promises not to do it again. And to tell the truth she we never had to repeat a session for the same transgression.

(in reply to Lorenzo19)

Post #: 49

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 6:48:49 PM

WyldHrt

Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

If the most a girl ever gets is corner time or a good talking to then a lot of infractions WILL be worth it.

Really? For a submissive who truly hates disappointing her Dominant, they most certainly won't be. Some of us would much prefer getting our asses beaten to seeing that look, or be told that we have disappointed our Dom.

The next part is a general comment, not directed at anyone in particular:
It's rather annoying to me when people treat submissives like we are children, endlessly trying to "get away" with something. While some may behave that way, it certainly isn't a universal thing.

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to Lorenzo19)

Post #: 50

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 6:51:53 PM

Smutmonger

Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline

I like the "conspiracy theory".

In my theory-I should be with someone who really enjoys a mutual vision and passion with me. If I have to punish someone for "not getting with the program"......

I guess my program isn't worth a shit to her-and we would be better off with someone else? Rather than trying to use "Nanny tactics" on someone who doesn't even care enough to pay attention?

quote]ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

If the most a girl ever gets is corner time or a good talking to then a lot of infractions WILL be worth it.

Really? For a submissive who truly hates disappointing her Dominant, they most certainly won't be. Some of us would much prefer getting our asses beaten to seeing that look, or be told that we have disappointed our Dom.

The next part is a general comment, not directed at anyone in particular:
It's rather annoying to me when people treat submissives like we are children, endlessly trying to "get away" with something. While some may behave that way, it certainly isn't a universal thing.

_____________________________

I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

(in reply to WyldHrt)

Post #: 51

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 7:29:18 PM

Tayr

Posts: 23
Joined: 6/29/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

This is great! These are awesome responses! There are so many of your posts that I would like to respond personally to, but I think it'll be easier if I simply reply in general terms. Oh, and because my original post was unclear about this... I currently do not have a submissive, nor have I had one in quite awhile. I posted this because I thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion.

It didn't even occur to me to qualify the types of discipline I was referring to. Perhaps it's better that I didn't, since we've gotten a much wider range of responses this way. Discipline (or whatever term seems more semantically appropriate here) is something that could be doled out for a wide range of infractions... anywhere from something as piddling as forgetting to lowercase an "i" in an email (something completely unintended), to gravely serious infractions that could end the relationship (something done consciously and purposely). And the form of discipline runs a wide gamut of possibilities... from a simple dissatisfied look, to a long painful beating, depending upon the level of infraction. Everybody defines and institutes these things differently.

In my case, I've only run into the sexual excitement situation when dealing with infractions of a lesser nature... things that don't mean a whole lot to me but still need to be enforced for consistency's sake. Like most of you, dealing with situations of the more serious nature does NOT leave me in a stimulated mood. I'm usually just angry or irritated that I'm even having to deal with the infraction in the first place.

To be clear, I have never acted on this "frisky" feeling. My gut reaction has always left me feeling that it would be an unwise move on my part. At best confusing for my sub, and at worst, very detrimental in some way. But I'm still exploring what it means to be Dominant. And what it is that submissives want or need. Your insights have been very helpful in exploring this particular scenario. Also, I don't believe I have ever purposely set up a submissive for failure, but that's certainly something to be cognizant of in the future. I have no desire to degrade anybody's self-esteem, or cause any kind of mental or emotional damage. To me that would be cruel and counterproductive to the relationship.

I agree with the idea of more clearly separating discipline from play, and I think that's something that I will focus more on when I do get a new sub. I tend to have a more playful mindset, so perhaps I'm simply not treating minor infractions with a level of seriousness that they should be. That's something I'll need to pay more attention to in the future.

Thank you all for contributing your thoughts. This is exactly what I was hoping for, and your opinions have been very insightful.

Jonathan

(in reply to Tayr)

Post #: 52

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 7:49:17 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

I like the "conspiracy theory".

In my theory-I should be with someone who really enjoys a mutual vision and passion with me. If I have to punish someone for "not getting with the program"......

I guess my program isn't worth a shit to her-and we would be better off with someone else? Rather than trying to use "Nanny tactics" on someone who doesn't even care enough to pay attention?

Uh, yeah, what he said!

My time has value, if she wastes it by fucking up our relationship, I am going to quickly tire of it and move on to find someone who wants to work WITH me...not against me. This is supposed to be a team sport and we are supposed to be on the same side...

(in reply to Smutmonger)

Post #: 53

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 8:03:31 PM

jujubeeMB

Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

quote:

Why people think this sort of stuff works is beyond me. It doesn't work when training animals, it doesn't work when raising children, why the hell would it work on adults?

Your incredulousness doesn't surprise Me in the least. Especially coming from a Man who advocates raping a girl into submission. That takes no skill.

Oh, because "whacking someone's cunny" takes tons of skill. You must have gone to Dom school for years to learn how to do that.

(in reply to Lorenzo19)

Post #: 54

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 8:07:08 PM

jujubeeMB

Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

After a punishment is over... it's over. Close out the session by asking her if she understands what she did was wrong, and if she's sorry. Then after that, forgive her. Give her a big hug and tell her that she's forgiven and that you still love her.

That makes it very clear in her mind that anything that follows is not part of the punishment. Plus it puts her into a very close and loving mind frame... so she will be feeling especially loving and submissive.

This. *swoon*

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 55

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 8:59:39 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

quote:

that the trade off between the punishment and the infraction wasn't worth it

totally. and that's not as simple as it sounds. If the most a girl ever gets is corner time or a good talking to then a lot of infractions WILL be worth it.

Since I was the one that posted about corner time and you never answered whether or not you were posting a response to me, I am going to address this... seeing this is how I am disciplined...

I love to be pleasing to my Daddy. There are few things that can compete with the joy it brings me to please him. I dislike displeasing him, and although I am far from perfect, he would tell you how much I strive to be pleasing...

Corner time for me? Well this is something I haven't had in a long long time.. and it has never been done in a hard assed sort of way... if I am cheeky he smiles and tells me to go to the corner and to stay there until my cheekiness goes away. He isn't angry, he isn't disappointed, he reinforcing behavior he wants to see and letting me know who is the boss by isolating me once in a while... not abandoning me, isolating me with my own thoughts.

He doesn't want a submissive he has to punish. He had a submissive that acted out just to get her ass beaten which she also hoped would lead to getting her ass fucked... why? Because that is what her former dominant did with her.... she liked it... she wanted more... she was a SAM, and a pain in the ass, and my Daddy got tired of that shit really fast. He caught on in a month to this game, even though she was his first submissive... it ain't freakin rocket science...

In my dynamic being a perpetual pain in the ass leads to not having a Daddy anymore. If I can't find it within me to be the type of person he wants to dominate, he would dump me... no do overs, no forgiveness, no beatings... none of that crap... just buh-bye... Brattiness isn't cute in an 8 year old, and it is even less endearing in a 41 year old... I am an adult.... and I behave like one.

If we have issues, which we have had our share, he talks to me like I am an adult. I have an equal stake in the relationship and whether or not it succeeds or fails...

You may need to beat your partners into submission and they maybe motivated to do your will for fear of you, but not all submissives are motivated to behave from a place of exerted authority... some of us just like it when we make the one we love happy, and they are proud of us and our behavior...

I love it when my Daddy is proud of me

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Lorenzo19)

Post #: 56

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 9:04:11 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

It's rather annoying to me when people treat submissives like we are children, endlessly trying to "get away" with something. While some may behave that way, it certainly isn't a universal thing.

Funny, it works the same way with kids... treat them like they are always trying to pull something and they will always be trying to pull something... feed their inner desire to be pleasing and make you proud, and they will endeavor to do that... human beings like respect no matter what age they are.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to WyldHrt)

Post #: 57

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/4/2010 11:01:46 PM

Lorenzo19

Posts: 237
Joined: 2/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

Oh, because "whacking someone's cunny" takes tons of skill.

one day I might splain it to you.

_____________________________

Daddy Dom & Romantic Sadist

Everything I needed to know about life I learned by killing smart people and eating thier brains.
Give Me your heart. Make it real. Or else forget about it.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)

Post #: 58

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/5/2010 7:47:45 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tayr

I agree with the idea of more clearly separating discipline from play, and I think that's something that I will focus more on when I do get a new sub. I tend to have a more playful mindset, so perhaps I'm simply not treating minor infractions with a level of seriousness that they should be. That's something I'll need to pay more attention to in the future.

Or you can just change what you consider to be an infraction or alter how much punishment minor infractions get. We don't really have minor infractions because Valyraen really doesn't care about enforcing small things. The ones that we do have come with very quick punishments. For example, it drives him crazy when I put my hairbrush down somewhere outside of it's place. So if he finds one misplaced he calls me over, I get one quick smack, I put the brush back, we kiss and it's over. Takes about 15 to 30 seconds and it has actually worked to almost completely break me of the habit.

Val and I are both very playfully minded people and we just can't see taking the little stuff seriously. To us, it's not worth it. A quick whap with his hand or whatever is at hand and it's done.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Tayr)

Post #: 59

RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/5/2010 8:00:25 AM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

Tayr, I think being playful is generally good, but confusing it with *real* punishment would be very confusing!

Lorenzo, I don't identify as a pain slut (or any other kind of slut, actually). Sometimes I've felt like a wimp and cried from just a hand spanking, I like thud better than sting, mostly I can take quite a bit and still enjoy it. At the point where it no longer *feels* good on its own, that's where submission can carry me farther than I would be able to go in a more casual play environment. Taking the concept that I am taking the "bad pain", suffering for my Master (or for my previous Dominant, when we were together), that struggle, is one of the core parts of submission for me. Being willing to do things or have things done to me that I otherwise would not, because that's what he wants of me, tuning into his pleasure, is an important aspect of our relationship. Turning it around and saying that no, pain means you've been bad feels like an inherent contradiction. Some people are able to keep the two clear, or keep one particular tool reserved, and I'm certainly not claiming that they shouldn't use pain in their punishments. For me, the pleasure and pain are all woven together, and trying to unravel them is very complicated. If someone else were even less into pain than I am, I'd tend to think there would be even more cognitive dissonance. I was just pointing out that in my case, in addition to worrying about that, I *am* a masochist, so I enjoy certain types of pain a lot. Adding more strikes of the same thing wouldn't come across as punishment all on its own. Hitting the same place several times in a row, hitting *hard* several times in a row without giving me a little time to absorb it, how "warmed up" I am, whether the tool is stingy or thuddy, hormones, my mindset, and so forth all make much more of a difference in how much something hurts than the number of strikes does.

I think the point julia was trying to make is that in most relationships, *genuine* punishment for wrongdoing should be *rare*. If it's happening all the time, either there is a huge mismatch in expectations of behaviour, compatibility, or *somebody* is determined to turn it into "funishment" instead. Like her, I try to please my Master - if I were resisting his lead all the time, rebelling against him, it would be rather pointless to try to engage in a D/s relationship!

(in reply to Lorenzo19)

Post #: 60

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