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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/5/2010 8:33:22 AM   
TxRanger


Posts: 16
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		Personally, I don't understand the angst. If you believe she needs to be disciplined, discipline her. If you want to use her, use her. She's yours do what you think is right with her. Caring about what she thinks is not an "attitude". Either you care what she thinks or you don't. Do you solicit her opinion about whether or not she needs to be disciplined? I'm guessing she "feels" it was not that big a deal. It's up to you to now if she needs discipline. If it gets you worked up fine, nothing wrong with that.

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/5/2010 12:34:34 PM   
Lorenzo19


Posts: 237
Joined: 2/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Since I was the one that posted about corner time and you never answered whether or not you were posting a response to me, I am going to address this... seeing this is how I am disciplined...


quote:

If I can't find it within me to be the type of person he wants to dominate, he would dump me... no do overs, no forgiveness, no beatings... none of that crap... just buh-bye...


If corner time works for you great. And if it doesnt work perfectly and forever you will be kicked out of Daddy's life (according to you). You are happy with this arrangemnet? I would not be.

I cherish My little girl and would not abandon her for any reason especially NOT for being naughty. When all it takes is a little or a lot of punishment to save her it is nutty to get rid of her. In the end I will have a really sweet little girl who adores Me and I her.

_____________________________

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Everything I needed to know about life I learned by killing smart people and eating thier brains.
Give Me your heart. Make it real. Or else forget about it.

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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/5/2010 12:42:26 PM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

quote:

Since I was the one that posted about corner time and you never answered whether or not you were posting a response to me, I am going to address this... seeing this is how I am disciplined...


quote:

If I can't find it within me to be the type of person he wants to dominate, he would dump me... no do overs, no forgiveness, no beatings... none of that crap... just buh-bye...


If corner time works for you great. And if it doesnt work perfectly and forever you will be kicked out of Daddy's life (according to you). You are happy with this arrangemnet? I would not be.

I cherish My little girl and would not abandon her for any reason especially NOT for being naughty. When all it takes is a little or a lot of punishment to save her it is nutty to get rid of her. In the end I will have a really sweet little girl who adores Me and I her.



If it gets to the point that she is willfully disobedient no matter the punishment she has left the relationship anyway.



_____________________________

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i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/5/2010 12:44:36 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

i know from my experience with my ex Master, when i did something that warranted a *real* punishment, he hated to do it.
julie


As it should be. There should be no joy in punishment from either side of the kneel. The "infarction" led to punishment and for it to be an "infraction" it had to be a pet peeve with the D or a hard line... at any rate the infraction was born out of negativity and the energy should not be changed to a positive experience. Equating the "punishment" with pleasure stands to blur the line, that said I defer you back to raven's insight.


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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/5/2010 1:03:47 PM   
Lorenzo19


Posts: 237
Joined: 2/8/2010
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quote:

If it gets to the point that she is willfully disobedient no matter the punishment she has left the relationship anyway.


That's a good way to run through a lot of girls. I used to be like that too. I expected the girls to always act like adults and if they didn't get rid of them. I expected them to melt in the fire of My Dominance. In the end Dominance only goes so far. Sometimes little girls need to discuss things with Mr. Paddle and Mr. Whip.

My theory is she leaves the relationship when she walks out the door. Then it is on her, not Me.

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Everything I needed to know about life I learned by killing smart people and eating thier brains.
Give Me your heart. Make it real. Or else forget about it.

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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/5/2010 8:59:46 PM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tayr

As a Dominant, I sometimes have to dispense discipline. Well, this often tends to get me all worked up. Nothing like a good ol' spanking to get a Dom all horny, ya know? So, my question is on whether or not the discipline should be followed up with some gratifying sex? Is that something that would have negative effects on my submissive? Should it be avoided? Or should I just indulge my "I don't care how you feel about it" attitude and force the sex on her? The last thing I want is for my sub to start associating sex with anything negative. But I want my cake (or pie, whatever ), too. What are your opinions or experiences with this issue?



Well..... if she's actually done something to displease you and is in need of correction, this isn't an approach that's going to work IMO. I know that would mess with my head a lot and wouldn't work for me at all. Maybe you should try a method of correction that doesn't involve things that turn you on.

But if you're into the punishment scenario - you know, "you've been a bad girl and need a spanking " - then go for doing a play punishment scene, and fuck her all you want. The two of you could have a lot of fun doing that.

Just be clear, in your own mind as well as with her, which you're doing.

(in reply to Tayr)
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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/6/2010 12:01:52 AM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

quote:

Oh, because "whacking someone's cunny" takes tons of skill.


one day I might splain it to you.


Yeah, yeah...

(in reply to Lorenzo19)
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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/6/2010 4:43:48 AM   
lally2


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Joined: 4/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

It's rather annoying to me when people treat submissives like we are children, endlessly trying to "get away" with something. While some may behave that way, it certainly isn't a universal thing.



Funny, it works the same way with kids... treat them like they are always trying to pull something and they will always be trying to pull something... feed their inner desire to be pleasing and make you proud, and they will endeavor to do that... human beings like respect no matter what age they are.



just picking this out of the crowd of great thoughts on this topic.

im not sure why its called 'Reverse Psychology' why should it be reverse to concentrate on the good things rather than the bad things - but there it goes.  reacting to the bad and not praising the good creates an imbalance of motivation, specially if there is no other attention being given out, other than punishment or discipline (boy have i been there in the past) - such a negative cycle.

fact is, here, noone needs to find an excuse to spank their sub and fuck her - its an established past time after all!

funishment is another thing and has nothing at all to do with punishment or discipline (IMO)

OP you mention in a later post that the smaller infractions were the ones you didnt take too seriously and those were the times you got frisky - so in a way, a doubly confusing message to the sub - youre not that bothered really and itll be fun to fuck too - chances are if you do attract a sub with a punishment kink going on, she'll be pushing youre buttons all the way.  and thats absolutely great if it doesnt get too much or you dont start developing the nasty suspicion that shes turning into a 'do me' sub, deciding when she wants a spanking and some sex.  not her decision, but in a way youd have created that situation and youd be ending up her service top.  just another way to look at that.

its all a bit complicated cos there are so many different people with so many triggers all wanting so many different things from a different past, different slant, different translations/needs blah blah.

all that can be offered is black and white here i spose - and from personal experiences too.

truth is i could be fucked after punishment and take it as him using me whichever way he felt like it - id be sufficiently 'in my place' to accept any damn thing at that exact moment.  but if it kept happening id probably start resenting it.  why - well, basically, because id just be getting over a really shit time and he was having a ball at my expense - sounds very unsubbie i know, but our time bomb brains do tick along at a furious rate sometimes.  a sub might not say 'im resenting this' but theyll be feeling it, which is much worse because it will slowly chip away at their respect of you, youre position of authority and youre assumed self control/discipline.

if you cannot exert self control at a time when you have just asked her to bite the bullet, stay still and take it then its a negative role model thing youve got cooking there.  in the end it wont work in youre favour, which ever way you cut it.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/6/2010 5:00:13 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

Personally, I like punishments that hurt. girls need to be hurt. corner time only turns them into spoiled little pigs. hurt them til they cry like little girls. I wouldnt have no wimpy brat that won't let you hurt em. Dont hurt them like you do in sex (if you do) hurt them twice as much as you would ever do in sex. This has the side benifit of pushing thier limits. then you can hurt them more during sex and they can take it cause they take twice as much in a punishment.

For instance cunnt spanking. If the most you ever spanked her cunny during sex was 50 times. then give her att least 100 wacks. if she was real bad 200.



While I do not disagree with the words you've used, I do disagree with their connotation.  You describe only the intensity of physical acts.  D/s does not take place on a submissive's skin, it takes place between her and her Dominant's ears.

Here's an experiment for you:  do exactly the same thing to your sub physically, but with different words. Once, tell her "You're my good little girl, aren't you?  You're getting my spanking because I like it and you're pleasing me."  The other time, tell her "You have disobeyed me and angered me.  This spanking is to teach you to behave.  And I WILL teach you."  I guarantee that she'll be able to tel the difference.

I also disagree with your take on corner time. Ir appears that you are discussing corner time when used as a punishment by itself.  I have never heard of that... it is used as a part of a larger punishment and is a break between intense activities, for reflection, to magnify her understanding of what she did.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Lorenzo19)
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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/6/2010 5:48:16 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		spare the rod - spoil the child - the old fashioned maxim for bringing up a child.  it didnt work for them (old browns school days) a harrowing film in many ways of disciplinary abuse in my view.

im not saying it doesnt work here with adults, it does for sure - (ive been told to buy a crop entirely because he knows i hate them)  - but what lorenzo is saying kinda bothers me too.  im just exploring lorenzo, nothing especially wrong with what youre saying, but im following DS's post and i agree totally with him.  i hate corner time, its humiliating and frustrating, im a fidgit and having to sit still its a hard ask for me.

but the reason i mention the quote above is becuase too much of something is surely just going to result in a sub being terrified of punishment.  theres dreading it and hating it and then theres being terrified.  terrified isnt a positive enforcer.

200 wacks on the 'cunny' i call it a cunt, but ok..., i mean, for real! - you dont possess a cunny so you cant possibly know what youre inflicting there - thats one heavy session - i couldnt do 50, not even 5 really hard to be honest! - id be terrified of you and of ever getting anything wrong. 

wanting to get things right to please is poles apart from wanting to get things right because im terrified not to.



_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/6/2010 6:20:59 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline 		-FR-

To the OP - I think it's hot, and I love when my husband forces himself on me. We don't really do any type of discipline thing but if we get into an argument and he holds me down and rapes me it's indescribably hot, and also effective, because it's a way of asserting his dominance and ending the argument.

Of course as the other replies have shown all relationships are different, but to me at least in a maledom relationship, forcing her to have sex against her will is a very, very effective way of maintaining your dominance.

(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/6/2010 6:27:20 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19



Punishment is the most difficult and important thing for a Master to learn. It cant be learned from one thread or even a whole book. But, hopefully a piece of the puzzle may be gleaned. I see each post here having a piece. Some times just a dirty look is enough to hurt a girl, or a threat, or an insult. As a Master grows and learns the art and science of punishment, both Master and slave will be drawn closer and thier bond more unbreakable.

 Really? THE most difficult thing to learn? That seems like such a strange statement to me, in all of the people that I know and have met I'd have to say that learning how to punish is not at the top of the list. You have.. a very different view on things than most I've come across.


It makes sense to me - it's difficult to find the right balance to punish someone. You don't want to be too harsh, too soft, you don't want to punish when a correction would do, you don't want to keep repeating the same correction until it's gone so far that punishment won't work...obviously I'm speaking more from a parental perspective than a dominant one but still, of all the things to learn, how to effectively punish another person that you care about has to be incredibly difficult.

(in reply to camille65)
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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/6/2010 7:48:40 AM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		I'm a bit late to the thread, and there are a lot of good thoughts here.
My take on it isn't to determine what you & yours should or shouldn't do, but just to point out, as Cesar Milan would point out, "EVERYTHING IS TRAINING";

Everything you do reinforces some sort of patten, both in you, and her. If you get erotic pleasure from scolding and spanking her for fun, it will become a pleasure that you both look forward to; if you do it for punishment and get pleasure from it, it will become the thing you contrive to find an excuse for.

Which, as others have pointed out, can push things into the "perverse incentive" territory- instead of honestly correcting her, you might find yourself disappointed in her obedience, and hoping for her disobedience.

Role play might be a good place to do all this without breaking the training of what you really want her to do.

(in reply to Tayr)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/6/2010 10:45:34 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		For me - sex and discipline are very much disconnected. I quite enjoy imposing the rules - so I say this as someone who enjoys enforcing them. As per usual - it's a case of having your objectives met - and if this means being cruel to be kind then I'm more than happy to go down that road and will enjoy it all the same (no feeling of sympathy here - you pay your money etc).

Just marry up your actions with the desired effect - otherwise you're wasting your time.

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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/6/2010 11:38:46 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline 		To me everything about a relationship with someone with whom you have a sexual/emotional bond is sexual, you wouldn't be in a position to punish her if her sexual expression wasn't that of a submissive.

so though it is sexual in nature it isn't the fun sex part of the relationship

_____________________________

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i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/6/2010 5:28:53 PM   
Falkenstein


Posts: 187
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tayr

I have a question that I would like to get both Dom and sub perspectives on.

As a Dominant, I sometimes have to dispense discipline. Well, this often tends to get me all worked up. Nothing like a good ol' spanking to get a Dom all horny, ya know? So, my question is on whether or not the discipline should be followed up with some gratifying sex? Is that something that would have negative effects on my submissive? Should it be avoided? Or should I just indulge my "I don't care how you feel about it" attitude and force the sex on her? The last thing I want is for my sub to start associating sex with anything negative. But I want my cake (or pie, whatever ), too. What are your opinions or experiences with this issue?



Tayr,

I would rather worry on the negatives effects on you than on your sub. If you enjoy punishing her, you will tend to set rules, give orders that she fails, so that you can punish her, since you enjoy it. This is not right.

For me, it is a clear case of conflict of interest.

There is a stark difference between punishment and funsihment and it applies to both master and sub.

You cannot have your cake and eat it.


_____________________________

Henry,

Part of that power which still
Produceth good, whilst ever scheming ill.

(in reply to Tayr)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/7/2010 10:35:16 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Here's an experiment for you: do exactly the same thing to your sub physically, but with different words. Once, tell her "You're my good little girl, aren't you? You're getting my spanking because I like it and you're pleasing me." The other time, tell her "You have disobeyed me and angered me. This spanking is to teach you to behave. And I WILL teach you." I guarantee that she'll be able to tel the difference.

I believe julia mentioned that her punishment has been just corner time. *shrugs* For me, I can tell the difference between the two situations intellectually, but I can't control exactly how I'll react to either. I still was aroused during an actual punishment, felt like crap because I wasn't supposed to, and it messed up my reactions to the non-punishment interactions we had for a while afterward. Maybe I'm just weird, since a lot of people have posted that they can keep them completely separate, but intellectual understanding can't always control our responses.

Elisabella, I haven't had any arguments with my Master so far. If it were something I felt that strongly about, then having sex with him wouldn't be likely to change my mind, even if it did make me shut up about it for a while!

(in reply to Falkenstein)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/8/2010 12:06:14 AM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Of course as the other replies have shown all relationships are different, but to me at least in a maledom relationship, forcing her to have sex against her will is a very, very effective way of maintaining your dominance.

Yep, things are different in each relationship. I'm quite into rape play, and being held down and forced just gets me hot, period. Not very effective if someone I was in a relationship was trying to change my behaviour. It also wouldn't end the argument for me (except temporarily), but I'm stubborn that way

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 3/8/2010 12:08:30 AM >

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
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RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/8/2010 12:25:31 AM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

terrified isnt a positive enforcer.

200 wacks on the 'cunny' i call it a cunt, but ok..., i mean, for real! - you dont possess a cunny so you cant possibly know what youre inflicting there - thats one heavy session - i couldnt do 50, not even 5 really hard to be honest! - id be terrified of you and of ever getting anything wrong. 

wanting to get things right to please is poles apart from wanting to get things right because im terrified not to.

Well said, Lally! This is a point that has been given a bit of a drive-by here, but not met head on until now. When it comes to physical punishment, overdoing it is a very real danger to the relationship. The day I stop wanting to obey my Dominant out of love and a desire to please, and obey out of fear instead... is the day I pack my bags and leave, period.


_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: A query on sex and discipline... - 3/8/2010 4:27:30 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2


just picking this out of the crowd of great thoughts on this topic.

im not sure why its called 'Reverse Psychology' why should it be reverse to concentrate on the good things rather than the bad things - but there it goes.  reacting to the bad and not praising the good creates an imbalance of motivation, specially if there is no other attention being given out, other than punishment or discipline (boy have i been there in the past) - such a negative cycle.




That isn't reverse psychology, this is positive reinforcement and it works. Do you work better for a boss who cuts you down all the time or for one who recognizes your hard work and sincerely praises you for it? Same for the rest of humanity.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 80
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