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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 9:58:37 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
So are you saying that you are a Gnostic?

I was pointing out that you were making Gnostic claims. But that's a topic that's irrelevant at this point because the moment you're questioned about your claims of knowledge you retreat to a position of belief.

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 10:02:05 AM

urineme

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Juliana, You've re-phrased, in your "Some embrace New Age religions, some cling to their traditions, some reject everything they were taught... this is not new at all either.", what I'd previously stated. NOW, all we need to do, as individuals first, then as a society, is to accept the differences and not try to force our particular views on others out of the biggoted belief that "Ours is the ONE TRUE WAY".

William

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 10:03:39 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
So are you saying that you are a Gnostic?

I was pointing out that you were making Gnostic claims. But that's a topic that's irrelevant at this point because the moment you're questioned about your claims of knowledge you retreat to a position of belief.

Actually Gnosticism is all about symbolizing the Sacred with personified beings... going as far as to use literature like Harry Potter and the LOTRs to do so....

I am not a Gnostic. I enjoyed learning about it and I could see myself trending that way when it comes to the deeper meanings of literature, but as a religious system... nope!

Now you can try to label me all you want, there are many religious systems that subscribe to meditation, connection with the universe, etc etc... why you are fixated with Gnosticism and insisting I believe in a Deity is beyond me. If anything I think we are all a part of what "god" is, making us gods...

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 10:03:46 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
OR they are White Atheists who have their own so-called enlightened view of the world based on the scientific method (something that they think makes them "rational" and therefore "superior" to the rest of the believers of various belief systems)

Seriously, take a second step back and look at what you're writing, you're getting into a racist rant is that really where you want to go?

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 10:06:33 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: urineme

Juliana, You've re-phrased, in your "Some embrace New Age religions, some cling to their traditions, some reject everything they were taught... this is not new at all either.", what I'd previously stated. NOW, all we need to do, as individuals first, then as a society, is to accept the differences and not try to force our particular views on others out of the biggoted belief that "Ours is the ONE TRUE WAY".

William

I agree with that...

I do not believe in One True Way...

I respect Atheism as much as I respect Christianity... as long as those who adhere to those belief systems do not denigrate others with them I could care less what they believe. A Christian that posted a thread that stated all people who are Atheists are going to hell would get a strong reaction from me too...

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 10:06:55 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Now you can try to label me all you want, there are many religious systems that subscribe to meditation, connection with the universe, etc etc... why you are fixated with Gnosticism and insisting I believe in a Deity is beyond me. If anything I think we are all a part of what "god" is, making us gods...

Your really misinterpreting me.

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 10:15:07 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
OR they are White Atheists who have their own so-called enlightened view of the world based on the scientific method (something that they think makes them "rational" and therefore "superior" to the rest of the believers of various belief systems)

Seriously, take a second step back and look at what you're writing, you're getting into a racist rant is that really where you want to go?

Hmmmm... this is something I am pretty confident about...

You see there is this thing called Colonialism.... and there were these guys from Europe that conquered the world. Some of them believed in God, others did not. Then there was this academic desire to describe the world for colonial powers. So Colonial governments dispatched people calling themselves "anthropologists" all over the world to document and quantify all that these new places that they ruled contained (at least the UK did). These men were White, and they often were Atheists or monotheists who believed that all those people they came into contact with were "primitive". They then wrote highly racist descriptions of these people's lifeways and their beliefs....

You see this is my discipline. I know a whole helluva lot about it. I have taken so many courses about it, and I could give you names and dates and sources to help you understand if you like. Just hit me up, I got a lot of knowledge on this topic.

You see, the West has been ruling the Rest for a long time. Now if people just applied the scientific method as one way of understanding the world, that would be one thing... but it is deemed "the best way" of understanding the world... it is a problem of power relationships you see... the West is all about Scientific Enlightenment and Rational Thought... which is a cultural way of viewing, categorizing, and understanding the world. Anything else is supposedly irrational, therefore not as "good"

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 10:17:01 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Now you can try to label me all you want, there are many religious systems that subscribe to meditation, connection with the universe, etc etc... why you are fixated with Gnosticism and insisting I believe in a Deity is beyond me. If anything I think we are all a part of what "god" is, making us gods...

Your really misinterpreting me.

Funny, I feel the same way.. I feel intentionally misrepresented.

I am not a Gnostic

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 10:36:40 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I am not a Gnostic

Ok, I think part of the problem is that we have a very different idea of what Gnostic means. I also don't think that exploring that difference will be terribly productive. You've since said your position is based on belief and I believe you

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 12:31:47 PM

JonnieBoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

In my opinion ... Athiests tend not to be being "superior", you seem to be falling into the trap of assuming that outspoken Athiests might represent the views of the majority ... I think most Atheists simply couldn't give a shit what anyone judgmental wants to think about their non interest in god type stuff and don't go around trying to convert anyone or being superior (thats what god believing types do and surely must have contributed to many a persons Atheism)

I firmly believe that you would pigeonhole me as an Athiest given me discussing my actual belief system. I'm not, but it's not worth the hassle explaining here, far too many godbonkers types hovering and waiting to make me "see the light"

Pirate

I think you're right that the majority of atheists aren't the loud preachy ones but I think you're a complete hypocrite for then turning around and painting "god believing types" as "judgmental" and "godbonkers" when the majority of people who follow a religion aren't the loud preachy ones.

Except I clearly stated I'm NOT an Atheist ... which means I'm not being hypocritical. I'm being a bit too preachy on a subject your brand of "church" doesn't endorse ?

It also means I can take the piss out of the "godbonkers" without having to defend Athiests from them. I mean ... if we're ALL supposed to be gods children or something, surely Atheism is another one of gods divine creations, so it shouldn't need defending ... right ?

Pirate

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 12:45:09 PM

JonnieBoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I haven't pigeonholed you. It is very ironic that you have assumed that I am going to... keep on firmly believing whatever you like.

I certainly will, thankyou.
(Ididn't say you HAD pigeonholed me ... I said I believe you would ... suddenly now belief is the same as assumption ??? )

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I do not belong to a religion and I do not necessarily believe in a personified higher power that I need to anthropomorphize. Did you think I did? Have you actually been pigeonholing me?

Yes, I have done just that. How does it feel ?

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 7:11:50 PM

thishereboi

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First you say...

quote:

Atheists simply couldn't give a shit what anyone judgmental wants to think about their non interest in god type stuff

Then you show us just how judgmental you can be by saying...

quote:

(thats what god believing types do and surely must have contributed to many a persons Atheism)

So I guess what your saying is Atheists simply don't care what you think. Hey, what ever works for ya.

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 8:37:13 PM

JonnieBoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

First you say...

quote:

Atheists simply couldn't give a shit what anyone judgmental wants to think about their non interest in god type stuff

Then you show us just how judgmental you can be by saying...

quote:

(thats what god believing types do and surely must have contributed to many a persons Atheism)

So I guess what your saying is Atheists simply don't care what you think. Hey, what ever works for ya.

You got the me bit right, why would your average Athiest give a shit what I think ?

I'm not sure if you're taking the piss, but there's nothing in my belief system that says being judgmental is wrong,

Clear ?

Pirate

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 8:57:50 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

there's nothing in my belief system that says being judgmental is wrong,

Clear ?

2 of 2 Thesaurus Results

Main Entry: judgmental
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: arbitrary
Synonyms: approximate, capricious, discretionary, erratic, fanciful, frivolous, inconsistent, injudicious, irrational, irresponsible, offhand, optional, personal, random, subjective, supercilious, superficial, unaccountable, unreasonable, unscientific, wayward, willful

Main Entry: holier-than-thou
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: self-righteously pious
Synonyms: artificial, goody-goody, high-hat, judgmental, pietistic, sanctimonious, simon-pure, smug, snobbish, unctuous

~Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus, Third Edition

Just FYI, yanno.

K.

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/26/2010 9:02:18 PM

JonnieBoy

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I prefer pious and unaccountable myself.

Pirate

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/29/2010 8:31:03 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Hmmmm... this is something I am pretty confident about...

You see there is this thing called Colonialism....

Um, there's something I am pretty confident about, Vincent isn't a British Imperialist from the 18th century.

I'm inclined to agree with Moonhead:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
the biggest problem with atheism is the one a lot of people with religious convictions have with atheists...

Clearly there's a problem when people who not only tolerate your beliefs but strongly support your right to have them are subjected to profanity and racist smears by even liberal theists like Julia simply for questioning those beliefs. Atheists are routinely threatened with violence and death in my country just for publicly mentioning that Atheists exist. Are we really the ones who have a problem with tolerance?

P.S. Julia, I have some curiosity about how "often" Atheists (seeing as they were rare and heavily persecuted) could possibly have held those positions.

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