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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/24/2010 10:54:14 AM   
brainiacsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: urineme

Something I see, which is disturbing to me AS an atheist, is the tendancy of some atheists to want to take it to the extent of being ANTI-THEIST, and to organize themselves just as the organized-religion theists have. That makes them as intolerant as the theists they rail against.

William




As an Atheist myself, William, I am having a hard time following you here. If you are referring to those Atheists who advocate protest marches or litigation to prevent nativity scenes from being displayed on lawns and public squares or the recitation of prayers at school events or the removal of "In God We Trust" from our currency, then you might have a point. After all, Atheists need to be smart in picking their battles. However, keep in mind that "organized-religion theists" are a very powerful voting block and their influence can decide elections, define domestic and foreign policy, interpret the law and generally set the tone and direction of public discourse in this country. I prefer that Atheists - or better yet, Free Thinkers - be better organized and less tolerant of such forces in the world.

Let me also say that Atheists need to do a better job of distinguishing between those theists who are part-timers and only pay lip service to their faith for personal comfort or convenience, and those who actually believe they know the word and will of god. The first group is basically harmless and they will breed religion out of society with each subsequent generation. No need to protest them.

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/24/2010 11:23:35 AM   
urineme


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Status: offline 		Brainiacsub, to clarify, I am refering, in the posting you replied-to, to those that protest and rail against allowing folks to post Menorah's, nativity-scenes, and the like on their religion's holidays. I see interfering with that as simply mean-spirited opression, and tending to make atheists appear as the grinch trying to steal christmas..  I haven't seen atheists organizing as a voting-block, nor do I expect-to, as we have such a wide variety OF political leanings, the simple choice of non-belief in deities is hardly a socio-economicly unifying aspect. We don't have a single unifying underlying philosophical anchor (the bible) that we are told we MUST believe, nor do we subject ourselves to a weekly prosyletization and brainwashing session (Church) as theists do, wherein political agendas are as oft put-forth as anything else. (Been there, heard that, ex southern baptist). We atheists tend to be VERY independant, and to look at issues on their value to us AS individuals, and to vote that way. We may unite around individual causes and issues, but I doubt we'll ever do it strictly AS atheists. I wouldn't want an overtly-atheist government that suppressed freedom of religion, and I certainly oppose an overtly-theist government that does the same in reverse, IMPOSING their flavor of religion.

William 

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/24/2010 11:54:46 AM   
brainiacsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: urineme

Brainiacsub, to clarify, I am refering, in the posting you replied-to, to those that protest and rail against allowing folks to post Menorah's, nativity-scenes, and the like on their religion's holidays. I see interfering with that as simply mean-spirited opression, and tending to make atheists appear as the grinch trying to steal christmas..  [...snip...]William 

Then you and I are in complete agreement, William. Just keep in mind that many who would display a nativity scene in the town square are the same ones who believe that this is a Christian nation and would use their considerable political influence to ensure that our secular beliefs are suppressed. I am often at a loss as to where the line between "mean-spirited oppression" and free expression of my own beliefs is drawn, but it is not one I intentionally wish to cross.

As for Atheists voting as a block, I'm quite certain we are Democrats. I have it on good authority from another thread in this forum that Obama is indeed the Antichrist, so...there you have it.

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/24/2010 11:56:57 AM   
Musicmystery


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As so much as is dismissed as matters of opinion or matters of faith---just choose not to believe in atheists, and then they won't exist for you.

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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/24/2010 1:31:15 PM   
urineme


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Status: offline 		In response to "As for Atheists voting as a block, I'm quite certain we are Democrats" I would have to disagree. I consider myself an "Independant", and vote more on individual issues. In regards to "I have it on good authority from another thread in this forum that Obama is indeed the Antichrist", FIRST, I have to ask, wouldn't, he being male, be more likely to be the uncle-christ? Only Mary and Joseph's sisters could be the aunty-christ. Rest assured that, on the basis of fiscal policies, and several other issues, I intend to vote for his opposition.

William  

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/24/2010 4:49:49 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		IMO, belief or the lack of belief in any sort of religion is not the answer to every problem or behavior in human societies.


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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/24/2010 8:11:13 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: urineme
We atheists tend to be VERY independant, and to look at issues on their value to us AS individuals, and to vote that way.  

Indeed, that's why I seriously doubt that you need to be worried about this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: urineme
some atheists to want to take it to the extent of being ANTI-THEIST, and to organize themselves just as the organized-religion theists have. That makes them as intolerant as the theists they rail against.


quote:

ORIGINAL: urineme
I am refering, in the posting you replied-to, to those that protest and rail against allowing folks to post Menorah's, nativity-scenes, and the like on their religion's holidays.

How much of that actually happens? The stories I've read have all been about atheists protesting their lack of an equal right to also put up displays.

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 4:35:55 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: urineme

In response to "As for Atheists voting as a block, I'm quite certain we are Democrats" I would have to disagree. I consider myself an "Independant", and vote more on individual issues. In regards to "I have it on good authority from another thread in this forum that Obama is indeed the Antichrist", FIRST, I have to ask, wouldn't, he being male, be more likely to be the uncle-christ? Only Mary and Joseph's sisters could be the aunty-christ. Rest assured that, on the basis of fiscal policies, and several other issues, I intend to vote for his opposition.
William  



After the opposition increased the national debt from $5 T to $10 T 2000 to 2006. Can't understand how you justify that to yourself.


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(in reply to urineme)
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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 4:55:55 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: urineme
I DO believe that we, as individuals, have abilities within ourselves that are currently classified, at least in western thought, as "Para-normal". I don't see the conflict.


What exactly are the abilities you possess?

(in reply to urineme)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 5:10:21 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

Just keep in mind that many who would display a nativity scene in the town square are the same ones who believe that this is a Christian nation and would use their considerable political influence to ensure that our secular beliefs are suppressed.


Which secular beliefs are they suppressing?


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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 5:11:55 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

As for Atheists voting as a block, I'm quite certain we are Democrats.


All atheists are democrats? Well I have heard people on cm say that all religious types are republicans, so I guess this shouldn't surprise me.


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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 5:27:29 AM   
brainiacsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Just keep in mind that many who would display a nativity scene in the town square are the same ones who believe that this is a Christian nation and would use their considerable political influence to ensure that our secular beliefs are suppressed.


Which secular beliefs are they suppressing?


...access to abortion, benefits of stem cell research, teaching real science in public schools, freedom of religious expression other than Christianity, being gay, being black, creating/viewing pornography, decriminalization of some drugs...I'm sure I'll think of some more later

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Profile   Post #: 152
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 5:29:57 AM   
thishereboi


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Status: offline 		You might want to look up the definition of belief, while your thinking about that.

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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 5:32:06 AM   
brainiacsub


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

As for Atheists voting as a block, I'm quite certain we are Democrats.


All atheists are democrats? Well I have heard people on cm say that all religious types are republicans, so I guess this shouldn't surprise me.


You took the quote out of context and it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Here is the entire quote:

"As for Atheists voting as a block, I'm quite certain we are Democrats. I have it on good authority from another thread in this forum that Obama is indeed the Antichrist, so...there you have it. "

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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 5:56:02 AM   
Jeffff


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Status: offline 		You're so cute! It's a shame God will damn your eternal soul to hell.

Oh well....


Jeff

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 6:05:17 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

As for Atheists voting as a block, I'm quite certain we are Democrats.


All atheists are democrats? Well I have heard people on cm say that all religious types are republicans, so I guess this shouldn't surprise me.


You took the quote out of context and it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Here is the entire quote:

"As for Atheists voting as a block, I'm quite certain we are Democrats. I have it on good authority from another thread in this forum that Obama is indeed the Antichrist, so...there you have it. "

I wouldn't have described Ayn Rand, Ropbert Heinlein, Jerry Pournelle or Poul Anderson as democrats, myself. There's plenty of right leaning atheists.

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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 8:10:35 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
This sentence is a "belief" on your part. You have no empirical evidence for stating this, you say "think" because it sounds like you arrived at this conclusion through your rational mind, but it is nonetheless a conclusion not founded in logic or evidence... just what you believe.

False, I used the word "think" to express an opinion I've formed from the observations I've made and history I've learned over the last twenty years of my life.


So if I say I "think" that there is some sort of higher power out there because throughout humanity's history the majority of us have sensed it and related to it, is that a "belief" or is it an "opinion"?


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(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 8:12:49 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
you treat spirituality as though it is analogous with religion... the two are not analogous.

No, I treat the beliefs fostered by a religion as though they aren't any less spiritual in nature simply because they are organized.



I do not think they are any "less" spiritual either.. I am just noting that one does not have to belong to a religion to be spiritual.


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Profile   Post #: 158
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 8:16:35 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: urineme

Gotsteel, nowhere is there a "Universal creed of Atheism" that says we cannot accept that there ARE things we cannot explain yet. I DO believe that we, as individuals, have abilities within ourselves that are currently classified, at least in western thought, as "Para-normal". I don't see the conflict. After considerable studies in comparative religion, including ancient mythologies of the world, (One man's religion is another man's mythology), I have come to see that deity-concepts are a creation of man, to fill a need. If a person has the need, let them fill it therewith, as is their basic human right. If a person doesn't feel the need, let them do as they will, and harm none, which includes NOT harranging or abusing those that believe differently. I accept that the tendancy towards intollerance of different beliefs is equally shared across the human race, but we have a choice as rational human beings to NOT be intolerant. That is all I am asking that we do as individuals, regardless of belief, or non-belief.

William


Elephants use to seem like they could communicate through telepathy. It was not until we understood that they could communicate over long distances that an explanation was found. There are many things that science cannot explain. Perhaps some day there will be explanations, or perhaps there will not be.. I see nothing incongruous with the attempt to find answers and being an atheist. If one believes that there is a scientific explanation for everything, it would follow they would try to find answers to all questions...  


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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/25/2010 11:54:35 AM   
brainiacsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


You took the quote out of context and it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Here is the entire quote:

"As for Atheists voting as a block, I'm quite certain we are Democrats. I have it on good authority from another thread in this forum that Obama is indeed the Antichrist, so...there you have it. "

I wouldn't have described Ayn Rand, Ropbert Heinlein, Jerry Pournelle or Poul Anderson as democrats, myself. There's plenty of right leaning atheists.

Count me among them. I am centrist politically but can lean very right on some issues. I am not all laissez-faire like Ms Rand, but I am a fiscal conservative.

Again, the quote was tongue-in-cheek to poke a little fun at William.

(in reply to Moonhead)
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