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ORIGINAL: ownedbyPF

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the 'trouble' with us is that to some degree or another we need to be with a sadist or at least someone who enjoys enflicting pain and watching us struggle with it otherwise theres no point.  why go through something hellish for youre M when it leaves them cold or vaguely squicked out -

This definately resonated with me! I have no interest  in beng with someone who "does it for me". Or is interested in "what I want" or "think I can take." I'm not even sure what "I can take" means. Take while still enjoying? Take without passing out? I take whatever he gives, whatever he feels like giving, for however long he feels like it. Am I a sobbing, screaming mess? Yes, but that's what he enjoys.

totally this.
 
if i thought for a moment that he was doing it for me id hate it because it would be him putting himself through something he didnt particularly enjoy to fuel my need to struggle.  that could not work, i could not submit to that - the point of submitting to the sadist is all about giving them pleasure by submitting and them seeing how you react - that is what they feed from and what we need to give, that is the point.

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even for someone like me there is 'good' pain (i can handle it) and bad pain (i really really really really cant handle it beyond a certain point) - if youre with a sadist that 'certain point' is where theyre heading and that got too much of a mindfuck eventually.

Agreed again! There is good pain... there are times when I absolutely love his cane, but lol, I think that's just luck. Meaning he isn't doing that particular thing because I like it, he's doing it because that's what he feel like doing.  I just happen to enjoy that sensation. It's usually fairly short lived though because as you said, he's heading to that certain point, and that isn't it.

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i realised a while back that i dont need to be with an all out sadist, but i do need to be with someone who enjoys inflicting enough pain on certain parts of my body (that i can handle) for me to reach that struggle thing and even go beyond that struggle thing.

I'm really glad you wrote this because it made me ponder... what if I was with someone that their point happened to be that same point that I actually find enjoyable, or maybe difficult, but not agonizing. If the point he wanted to get to happened to coincide with the point I enjoy, or a little beyond, would that work for me? I know my Owner sometimes does that. We never have nilla sex, there is always some kinda hurting me involved. Sometimes it isn't nearly as bad as others and I am quite fulfilled, but I think the key for me is knowing that... I got off easy. I think I need to be with someone that takes me all the way out there, despite hating it. I don't know... it's just what I need and crave and love and hate. Even if I don't get subspace, or warm and fuzzies about how much I like pain. It's like I said before, fear when it starts, desperation for it to end, looking forward to it beginning again! There is something about being stripped down to nothing but a sobbing desperate mess that works for me... and feeds his sadisticness. He revels in my not enjoying it and taking me there anyways. I revel in him not giving a shit

agreed, but there is a difference between truely finding something difficult and struggling and absolutely hating something so much that there is no cathartic struggle, you are not struggling to please, you are struggling to endure. thats the bad pain for me.
 
i can be turned into a sobbing, heaving mess and find catharsis at the end and that is 'good pain' i guess, as you say, dreading it, desparate for it to end, needing it again, knowing you can go through it again, maybe even worse next time.  but then ive been in a situation where the misery went far beyond any cathartic pleasure in pleasing - it was bitterly unpleasant from start to finish with no catharsis at the end and no joy in pleasing either because the misery took all of that away.
 
we all have our limits and i met mine that time.  i spose im saying that pleasing a sadist is also about compatibility.  where he hurts you and how he hurts you works for both of you.  i dont know, of course, but i can only suppose that if he hurt you in a different place in a different way that was not so compatible would it still feel the same to you.  im just being nosey i spose.
 
my massochism is akin to youres but i know that there are certain things i cannot submit to, no matter how much i wish to please the sadist in him.
 
a massochist that processes pain as pleasure can still struggle sometimes but im guessing even they have pain that is submittable to and some pain that just isnt.  what happens then.
 
im seriously curious.
 
for instance, youre labia is pierced and he wants to twist those piercings round and round till you start to bleed and scream - would you be able to submit to that, knowing that it was pleasing him.
 
at what point does pleasing a sadist for a massochist like you or me go beyond physical capacity.
 
there has to be a 'beyond' point where pleasing youre sadist is physically impossible to endure.
 
its why i get so annoyed with posts like the one ive just flamed at - sensationalising and romanticising the whole massochism/sadism thing to the point where pleasing youre sadist goes beyond reasonable.
 
you and youre M are clearly compatible.  he beats you in a way you can process through struggle and within that realm you are within youre capacity to struggle even when he takes you beyond that point.  i can completely understand that.

~s

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ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

I don't think there is anything wrong with being a service top. "Sensual sadist" is rather a pc term for it.

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ORIGINAL: came4U

wish I knew this thread had still went on...

ORIGINAL: came4U
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but, I had in my pea brain that 'WOW, if some guy, this day and age, took the chance of kidnapping me, keeping me for his own, no consent, just pure ..sick lust, I would be / feel sooo darn special'.

I don't know how many women or housewives have the fantasy of some big, ugly, strong Viking coming into their bedrooms and sweeping them away. Likely it is in the millions. Personally, I don't get off on the 'romantic' thoughts of that kind of scenerio as some would., I would get off on the sick bastard portion of his personality...not his ability to pet my hair like I was a wabbit. When you pick a sadistic fucker for your fantasy, you also get choice of hair color. I want dark hair. Oh you big stinky bastard!!

lets just slip out of fantasy for five secs here - how special would it be if some quasimodo lookalike kidnapped you, had every STD under the sky and stank to high heaven. not so much maybe.

we all can fantsise about some hunk lusting after our ass and keeping us for them and them alone. but reality isnt always so pretty.

yes, and if your fantasy included being spanked under a waterfall and you had a dire fear of water in general..that is living dangerously lol. It is in your mind, how much it scares you is a personal issue.
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In the end, there is no such thing as true sadism (prison), no true masochism, until it comes to the point of death or giving life (existence) up.

what rubbish. i had to go to the end of this thread to look to see if anyone else had made a comment on this, presumably they decided it was too stupid a comment to even attempt a response to. but i cant let this facile nonsense go by.

ill even go this far and suggest that when you have experienced pure sadism and submitted to it you will realise how facile this comment of youres is. death and prison as the ultimate Holy Grail of sadism and massochism - if that is youre fantasy then you keep it. in the meantime the rest of us will continue to glean more from life than proving ourselves as worthy meat to a psychopath.

By the definition of sadism, if one were very cruel and uncaring about women/others in general, that is what they would do, every sadist has his limits (his own personal limits), and a genuinely sicko bastard one would choose to do things by HIS limits, not another's (by any masochist's terms or limits)
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Is it altruistic? NO, because it gave no benefit for another or a species. Would it be to prove my love for the true sadist? yes. I guess that makes me a coward, not a masochist lol.

again, not meaning 'me', is the example of explaining the difference and even co-existence (if any) between the sadist and the willing victim. I do understand now, how by using the words, I am or me, would cause confusion, uhhg. Really just used myself as an example instead of continious use of 'he/she/they/himself/herself' third party talk.

youre love for the true sadist. so this true sadistic hunk from 'hunk magazine' who will gaze into youre limped eyes with his burning male presence and snuff you out like the fragile little candle flame that you are - and as you gasp youre last in his big strong hands you can whisper to the world, i died for my love of the true sadist - oh good fucking lord! - itll be quasimodo with halitosis in some grotty basement flat, youll be dirty and sweaty and desparate to live.

I used that sentence but it was not meant to be personal " Would it be to prove my love for the true sadist? "

I feel no love for any sadist, nor would I want to. I Is why I used the word 'the' instead of 'a' or 'my dream sadist' The implies he is ...fictional. An example of a 'personna' not the actual entity. love lol. No thanks, I don't do love. No interest in love. I might 'love' the sadistic reaction though, but him personally? no

*and don't go on about me being mentally ill. Writers since time began have been writing about what one love would do for another...to prove love, to disprove love or because they have lost love.

romeo and juliet, cleopatra and julius, edward and mrs.simpson - sacrifices made for love not some half baked fantasy

The ideal of love, in the broader sense has nothing to do with it. Writings about the 'causation' of what some would do for love, does. In this case, if the 'love' of the sadist's reaction is greater than one's life, people who do or have 'loved' should understand the intensity. Since many have written about that very hmmm sacrifice, in so many ways, at so many times. Whether that sacrifice is of themselves because they lost love (who or what they wanted) or the other because they couldn't fulfill it. (not willing or unable to give back) *I hope these colors turn out right.
yep, I screwed up the quoting LOL doh

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ORIGINAL: lally2
a massochist that processes pain as pleasure can still struggle sometimes but im guessing even they have pain that is submittable to and some pain that just isnt.  what happens then. im seriously curious. for instance, youre labia is pierced and he wants to twist those piercings round and round till you start to bleed and scream - would you be able to submit to that, knowing that it was pleasing him.

at what point does pleasing a sadist for a massochist like you or me go beyond physical capacity.
there has to be a 'beyond' point where pleasing youre sadist is physically impossible to endure.
its why i get so annoyed with posts like the one ive just flamed at - sensationalising and romanticising the whole massochism/sadism thing to the point where pleasing youre sadist goes beyond reasonable.

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my brain hurts - maybe i was just in such a foul mood last night i saw 'romancing the psychotic murderer' as some ultimate expression of absolute sadism and massochism - this bumped the other thread about turning into a paranoid wreck

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

That is a great way of expressing the process LP and though I didn't have an identical path, I see many similarities.

I consider myself a sensual sadist because essentially I am both a sensual person and a sadistic person and both these sides are expressed in my sexuality. I don't consider myself a service top as I'm at the service of no one. I am however an empathic and considerate top, which is not in contraction with the notion of sadism.

But more important than all these labels, I'm true to myself and my desires.

- LA