RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 4:24:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

No - my daft is never on purpose. Your question was obscure or at least badly written.

and happy I am that the kid won't be living next door to me.
Okay I will grant you that point.....shit, given my writing history it is entirely possible it was "badly written"
(I'm just being nice.....what I write is crystal clear!)


Just like your use of the quote function.  [:)]
Ouch...you cut me to the bone with that one [:)] if I cry uncle will you leave me alone?




JstAnotherSub -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 4:26:26 PM)

If  links I got from Google have the facts correct, I hope the kid never has a breath of free air again.

I would really prefer that he get shot in the head if he is convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, but alas, they won't let me be queen of the world.

Saddest part is his dad lost 2 kids and a fiancee' in one felled swoop, and that gals daddy lost a daughter and grandbaby.

It sucks, but if you are capable of shooting someone and then going about your day, you do not need to be allowed to roam the earth unsupervised.

my opinion only of course....




slvemike4u -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 4:29:15 PM)

Yeah if at 12 years old you can do that....and as you say just go about your day,hell there might actually be something wrong with you.
How about that? This fucking kid just might be.....whats the word I'm looking for,don't tell me I'll get it.......oh yeah SICK.




NihilusZero -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 4:30:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

His argument is that "children belong to their parents", the biggest piece of medieval crap I've heard in a long time *sigh*.

The whole issue of preemptive accusations and capital punishment aside, that is how the dynamics are legally viewed with minors (unless a specific social crime against the child is being committed).




LadyEllen -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 4:34:13 PM)

Just imagine the money we could save if we dispensed with trials and due process and all that evidence stuff, and just seized whoever was nearest any crimescene on its discovery and hanged them there and then from the nearest tree? And the police arent necessary - after all the hue and cry worked out fine for centuries in getting someone or other hanged for every offence. A 100% clear up rate and 100% conviction rate, at zero cost - though the public purse may have to cough up for rope and a few torture sessions (not a great deal different there then) to get those all important confessions.

Or did we maybe evolve the current system, it having been realised that medieval methods left something to be desired?

E




JstAnotherSub -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 4:34:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yeah if at 12 years old you can do that....and as you say just go about your day,hell there might actually be something wrong with you.
How about that? This fucking kid just might be.....whats the word I'm looking for,don't tell me I'll get it.......oh yeah SICK.


Well, using that logic Hitler was just "sick"  So was Manson, Gacy, pick yer killer.

Sick, maybe, hell I will even give you probably.  Does he ever need to be allowed to roam around free again, no way in hell.

I know I won't change your mind on this subject, nor will you change mine. I am sure we both have reasons for feeling the way we do, related to our life and outlook.

Shoot him ain't an option in a civilized society like we are (hahahahah), so lock him up forever. 

runaway m caught and disposed of..




Aylee -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 4:39:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Ouch...you cut me to the bone with that one [:)] if I cry uncle will you leave me alone?


You do not have to cry anything in particular.  Crying is enough.  [:D]




slvemike4u -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 4:42:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yeah if at 12 years old you can do that....and as you say just go about your day,hell there might actually be something wrong with you.
How about that? This fucking kid just might be.....whats the word I'm looking for,don't tell me I'll get it.......oh yeah SICK.


Well, using that logic Hitler was just "sick"  So was Manson, Gacy, pick yer killer.

Sick, maybe, hell I will even give you probably.  Does he ever need to be allowed to roam around free again, no way in hell.

I know I won't change your mind on this subject, nor will you change mine. I am sure we both have reasons for feeling the way we do, related to our life and outlook.

Shoot him ain't an option in a civilized society like we are (hahahahah), so lock him up forever. 

runaway m caught and disposed of..
Actually your solution,given guilt is established and defect can not be addressed  is a hell of a lot closer to my own than that which has been suggested by some others....I have no desire to watch society play russian roulette with those who have proved their capacity for indiscriminate violence.




tazzygirl -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 5:12:01 PM)

Wow. Didnt expect so many responses.

Ok. As far as more information, a google of his name will reveal many links.

Here is the info from the link the defense attorney created.


Eleven-year-old 5th grader Jordan Brown is charged as an adult for a double homicide he did not commit.

Pennsylvania state police conducted an inadequate investigation which ignored important leads; the media have convicted Jordan of the crime without any credible evidence.

Under a Pennsylvania law aimed at urban street gangs, Jordan faces the prospect of spending his entire life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Jordan needs your help now!


http://www.jordanbrowntrust.org/

The behavior of Jordan and his step-sister while on their school bus and at school suggests neither child knew anything was wrong until police arrived at their school later in the morning.

Kenzie had received death threats from a former boyfriend in the months before her murder—a lead the police inexplicably have not taken seriously, relying instead on a dubious and unreliable statement from Jordan’s younger step-sister.


Jordan Brown is being railroaded by authorities and the media. There is no physical evidence connecting him to the crime. In fact, evidence suggests his youth-sized shotgun was not even the murder weapon as alleged by police.

When Jordan was departing for school, he saw a black truck parked outside their home. Jordan truthfully reported this to the police. However, the police said they didn’t believe it and accused him of sending them on a “wild goose chase.”

The police have consistently ignored evidence and statements which do not support their initial theory of the crime. Some of the investigators from the same police barracks have done this before, sending an innocent man to death row for many years. They have destroyed their interview notes and produced only selectively-edited “evidence.”


http://www.jordanbrowntrust.org/background.html

The above site has more info.

Seems some wish the child dead. Thanfully the Supreme Court has nixed that very idea. So, instead of wishing the death of a child.

Looking further into that site... and i am not stating if i believe it or not... i really dont know.

February 21, 2009 11-year-old Jordan Brown is charged as an adult with two counts of criminal homicide, a charge which carries a mandatory sentence of life without the possibility of parole.

March 24, 2009 A preliminary hearing was held in which the prosecution failed to produce credible evidence linking Jordan to the crime; Lawrence County district attorney Bongivengo said he only had to show that a crime had been committed and that Jordan could have committed it.

May 6, 2009 Jordan pleaded Not Guilty at a formal arraignment hearing before the Lawrence County Common Pleas Court, Judge Dominick Motto presiding.

August 26, 2009 Arguing that the state has failed to produce sufficient evidence to support the charges against Jordan, his attorneys filed a writ of habeas corpus requesting Jordan’s release. They also requested that information illegally gathered by police be suppressed. The judge denied both motions.


(from the same link as above)

Now, further reading reveals this....

The other children--all in the home at the time of the murder--were unharmed, and Kenzie's 7-year-old daughter remembered hearing what sounded like a gunshot right before Jordan come to get her to walk her outside for them to go to school, according to news reports.

and it also contains this...

While officers investigated at the home they found Jordan's hunting shotgun (a gift from his father for Easter), along with a blanket in his room with a bullet-sized hole in it. The weapon smelled like it had been discharged recently, even though Chris said Jordan only used it when they went hunting, and the hole in the blanket had gunshot residue on it.

Conversations with Kenzie's young daughters during the investigation, along with Jordan's gun residue-stained clothing, produced information and evidence that assured them they were looking at a young boy for the murder, a boy who cold-bloodedly went on off to school when the deed was done, supposedly.



http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2786950/accused_boy_12_tried_as_adult_for_murdering.html?cat=25

This was an editorial piece, please keep that in mind.

And im still left shaking my head and not knowing what to think.

What i would love to know is.. where was the ex-boyfriend? That simple answer could, possibly, hold more information.

Did Jordan do it? Certainly looks like it. But are we sure? Sure enough to pass judgement and decide a 12 year old boy MUST die?

Im still not to that point.




slvemike4u -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 5:18:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Ouch...you cut me to the bone with that one [:)] if I cry uncle will you leave me alone?


You do not have to cry anything in particular.  Crying is enough.  [:D]
My kind of Woman...once I start crying I always forget just what I'm supposed to scream.[:D]




blacksword404 -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 9:43:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I think legally we need to establish a standard and stick with it.

We had the recent story of a 17 year-old murdered by a convicted sex ofender and she was repeatedly referred to as a child.

Yet Pennsylvania law allows someone as young as a 10 year-old to be tried and sentenced as an adult.


I have to agree with you on this one. If a child is a child then they need to be a child in all cases. Not just specific ones. Age does not change based on circumstances.




WyldHrt -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 11:40:47 PM)

First off, the death penalty is not even on the table in this case. The "kid" could stand up in open court, call the victim a bitch, and say he's glad that he killed her/ that he would do it again, and the death penalty would still not be on the table.

quote:

"I'm sorry I shot my step mom. I didnt mean to do it.

"I was getting ready for school and she was still in bed asleep and I wanted some breakfast so I thought I should wake her up. Then I saw my shotgun and I thought it would be funny to wake her up, you know, like I was the police arresting her for not making my breakfast, with it. I didnt know it was loaded. I didnt check it like dad told me. It went off as I was tapping her with it to wake her and it was awful.

"I was so scared. I knew I'd be in big trouble but I didnt know what to do. She looked like she was dead, she must have been. So I hid the gun and went to school and hoped I wouldnt get the blame. There's so much crime and murder on the TV news I thought maybe the police would think it was someone else."

Plausible enough story I'd say.

I lubs you Lady E, but a story like this doesn't really hold water. The crime happened over a year ago, he was caught right off, and has been locked up ever since. He has lawyers and his father in his corner, and I'm sure they have all asked him ad nauseum if it was an accident, what happened, yadda yadda. His Dad makes a 4 hour daily round trip to see him and has never said something like, "Please son, if it was an accident, just tell me. I'll still love you"?  Given the situation, what 11- 12 year old wouldn't spill the truth sooner or later if it was an accident? If he had a plausible explanation that matched the evidence the police have, his lawyers would have been on it in two seconds and would be riding it for all it's worth.

That leaves either an innocent kid being railroaded by lazy or corrupt law enforcement (doesn't make a lot of sense, as anyone with intelligence above the level of the average postage stamp knows that something like this is going to be a media shitstorm and that every move made by the LEOs, prosecutors, and judge is going to be scrutinized ); or we have a young psychopath, capable of killing someone, hiding the evidence, and trotting merrily off to school.







takemeforyourown -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/15/2010 11:48:26 PM)

Geez... I don't know what to do with him. Is there a bad-kid island or something?




LadyEllen -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/16/2010 4:10:19 AM)

It was an illustration of my point WH - that for all those condemning this kid as spawn of Satan and wanting him hung, drawn and quartered, the story can be told many ways as things stand today, necessitating one of those trial things to get at the truth, with evidence to support it.

And in the meantime Tazzy provides enough information for there to be serious doubt about the kid's involvement and possible negligence on the part of the police ('cause that never happened before).

E




truckinslave -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/16/2010 4:32:23 AM)

quote:

But then only in the US, as I heard it, can we observe a witch hunt against lawyers defending terrorist suspects at trial as if those lawyers are terrorists or terrorist sympathisers.


One of which attorneys is already in prison for her crimes. "As if" indeed.




truckinslave -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/16/2010 4:37:14 AM)

"Well, I keep wondering about the father, too"

One wonders just how far from the tree this sapling took root.




truckinslave -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/16/2010 4:39:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Before we hang him, might we consider that boys of this age (and younger) spend a lot of time shooting others in video games that are extremely realistic.

Perhaps we might also question, whether he knew the gun was loaded? It could easily be that he was playing round, reenacting something he'd seen or heard about on TV or in his video games, and thought the gun safe? Maybe even a prank to get his stepmother to wake up when the gun went click rather than bang - not funny of course, but possible for a boy of that age.

E


OMG.




truckinslave -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/16/2010 4:48:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Oh bullshit Boi,society has many methods of protecting itself from this "kid" the last of which should be the old just "put him down" method you seem to favor.


If the likelihood is determined by skilled professionals that he's a) psychotic and b) a continuous threat to those around him, why on Earth should we have to spend tax payer monies on keeping him comfortable for the rest of his life?



Those "skilled professionals" repeatedly effect the release of people who commit further crimes more horrendous than the ones for which they were originally convicted.
It's sort of like the Catholic Church being predisposed to give pedophile priests second chances. The Church is all about redemption and second chances... those "skilled professionals" have a vested interest in the efficacy of therapy and rehabilitation.
I don't trust either bunch.




sirsholly -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/16/2010 6:52:47 AM)

quote:

Before we hang him, might we consider that boys of this age (and younger) spend a lot of time shooting others in video games that are extremely realistic.
if the child was exposed to violent video games long enough to be influenced to this degree.....poor parenting!!!




sirsholly -> RE: 12 year old facing life in prison for shooting father's pregnant fiance (3/16/2010 6:55:20 AM)

quote:

If he committed the crime, what do you think should happen to him?
Taz...i would have to find the link, but the last i heard was the examining psychiatrist saw no regret/remorse at all and feels the child will always be a threat to society.




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