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[Poll]

Abortion

I'm against ALL abortions

2% (4)

I'm for allowing abortion in ANY circumstance

26% (38)

I'm against it, unless the LIFE of the mother is at risk

6% (10)

I'm for it being legal, but I hate it

23% (34)

I'm against it, unless the general health of the mom is at risk

4% (6)

Keep it legal, only if rape, incest or the mom's life is involved

6% (10)

I don't care one way or the other

3% (5)

I believe there is life at conception

13% (19)

I believe life begins between 3 and 9 months

6% (10)

I believe life only begins after birth

6% (10)

Total Votes : 146

(last vote on : 3/18/2011 4:38:46 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:16:30 PM

Wolf2Bear

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No harm and no foul RealOne.

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Post #: 21

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:17:33 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
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I have an issue with abortion to the extent when you have two parents at odds. I don't believe the mother has a right to abort a fetus that the father would like when it becomes viable. I don't believe its murdering a child if someone chooses to not allow the fetus to become viable. But the fetus to me belongs to BOTH parents. I use to be more hard core prochoice but know two men who pretty much begged the women to have the child and they would take the child and the woman would never have to do anything unless she wanted too. Each time, the woman aborted. The Men were left devastated.

While i believe its a woman's body, the fetus is not to me just hers. I also don't believe its fair if the mother decides against abortion and the father is dead set for it, that the father is to be responsible because the mother decides not to abort.

You, to me, can't have it both ways, you can't say she has absolute right over the fetus which is both parents to the point of aborting it so it doesn't become viable because she doesn't want the responsibility or whatnot and the father has no choice -- and then say the father who is absolutely for the abortion and wants it then needs to be responsible for the mother's choice to allow the fetus to become viable because she wants the responsibility or whatnot and also expects the father to do so. To me, that is placing the decision of responsibility on the mother in a way that is wrong in many instances.

So i am torn because i don't have an absolute answer. I don't have concrete arguments so I am torn.

angel

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Post #: 22

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:19:23 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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The timing of this poll is not very good.
............

Just my 2 cents. / steps aside.

(in reply to barelynangel)

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Post #: 23

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:20:07 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

~FR~ OK Real, I can see how one might consider sex a "contract", but in legalese terms the man is really a silent partner. If there is any sort of stable relationship between the parties then I feel the man has a right to be consulted, but in the end he has no say...its her body, its her decision. And if the man wishes to end the relationship over it, that is his right, no man is required to be supportive of a decision he is opposed to, but he has no right to interfere.

he has the right to be "negotiated" with not consulted if he is the contributor to the product.

if they had a great nite by consent and the rest was the creation of a kid than it is a 2 party contract regardless how you want to sing that song.

Regardless of interest its still a contract.

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Post #: 24

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:23:17 PM

thornhappy

Posts: 8596
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How is the contract affected by miscarriage?

(in reply to Real0ne)

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Post #: 25

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:24:07 PM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I concur that both Arpig and Bear are good men, even if I disagree with them

I appreciate everyone's input.

And even if I disagree with you on this Level, I still like you. :-)

- LA

Feeling is mutual, pretty lady.

And Bear, you're welcome, my friend.

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Post #: 26

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:25:03 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

How is the contract affected by miscarriage?

why you thinking about sticking firecrackers up there? LMAO

failed to produce so you can get a plunger I suppose and tell a big lie to the guy that you failed to produce.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Post #: 27

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:25:03 PM

Navina

Posts: 72
Joined: 8/26/2009
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I'm all for abortion being legal, but I detest the act itself. Who am I to decide what another woman does with her own body?

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Post #: 28

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:25:45 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

This is a no-brainer for me...pro-choice....and here is a shocker for my adoring public,not something I would ever want to have a part in.Now if that is not clear let me expand on it....I would ,if in that situation make every effort possible up to and including taking all responsibility for the child after the birth to avoid the termination of any pregnancy I had anything to do with.Failing that entreaty I would than support in any way I could the womans choice....after all it is her body.

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Post #: 29

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:27:09 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

~FR~ OK Real, I can see how one might consider sex a "contract", but in legalese terms the man is really a silent partner. If there is any sort of stable relationship between the parties then I feel the man has a right to be consulted, but in the end he has no say...its her body, its her decision. And if the man wishes to end the relationship over it, that is his right, no man is required to be supportive of a decision he is opposed to, but he has no right to interfere.

It's always a good practice to have open communication with the people your swapping fluids with, isn't it. ;-)

Like BK said, I'm not pro-abortion, I am pro-choice. That said, it is the responsible thing for a woman to consult the sperm provider in the equation before making her final decision. The situation might reveal things about their relationship and make it stronger.

I know a couple where she was sure he didn't want it, but in talking with him, he realised this is what he wanted, like a lightning bolt, and they are now married with 2 more kids.

In other cases, if he agrees with the abortion, he can be a source of emotional support to go through it.

But if the man is not around and she doesn't want the kid, then how can she consult him?

And the bottom line is, even after consulting him, her choice is the final one. It is her body.

- LA

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Post #: 30

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:27:14 PM

Wolf2Bear

Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

You, to me, can't have it both ways, you can't say she has absolute right over the fetus which is both parents to the point of aborting it so it doesn't become viable because she doesn't want the responsibility or whatnot and the father has no choice -- and then say the father who is absolutely for the abortion and wants it then needs to be responsible for the mother's choice to allow the fetus to become viable because she wants the responsibility or whatnot and also expects the father to do so. To me, that is placing the decision of responsibility on the mother in a way that is wrong in many instances.

So i am torn because i don't have an absolute answer. I don't have concrete arguments so I am torn.

angel

Understandable, yet though both people involved in the creation of a fetus and the man does have a moral and ethical responsibility to share in the development of the fetus before and after birth,. It still boils down to the issue that a woman needs tl have the ultimate say over her own body just like we men have over ours. Sadly this has it's good points and a downside which we have to accept both.

Another angle to this is if a woman is denied the right to abort, then men should be denied the right to have themselves sterilized. as don't we have a responsibility to provide the sperm to fertilize the ovum? Yes I know this is taking it to an extreme yet I see it as still being valid to the topic.

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

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Post #: 31

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:27:46 PM

zephyroftheNorth

Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

I concur that both Arpig and Bear are good men, even if I disagree with them

I appreciate everyone's input.

And even if I disagree with you on this Level, I still like you. :-)

- LA

Feeling is mutual, pretty lady.

And Bear, you're welcome, my friend.

I agree with all of the above, and Level, even if we are on opposite sides of this issue, I still loves you

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Post #: 32

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:28:20 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

I feel the same way Angel does - that the fetus belongs to both the mother and the father, but at the same time I feel that until technology gives us reliable and affordable incubators so that the woman doesn't have to carry the child to term, she shouldn't be prevented from abortion.

That being said I feel that while abortion is legal, there should be an equivalent option for the father to abdicate all paternal rights and responsibilities, because if a woman has the right to choose whether or not she will become a mother, a father should have the same right. It bothers me how the "if you didn't want to become a parent you shouldn't have had sex" argument is supported when it comes to child support payments but not for abortion.

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Post #: 33

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:29:51 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
How is the contract affected by miscarriage?

I'm sure Real0ne has some 'failure to supply goods' clause to punish the woman with.

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Post #: 34

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:33:21 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
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To me she had the say when she had sex. In the end in all actuality, the fetus is the PRODUCT of both people. In this day and age, to me, pregnancy is no surprise if someone determines to have sex. I don't believe a woman has a right to abort a possible child IF the Man wants the viable result of a product that is his. Just as i don't believe a man should have to be responsible for a viable product that he wanted aborted and she didn't.

You lost me what does abortion have to do with sterilization, you do realize women have the same option as men in that? Its called getting their tubes tied. So to me your second paragraph is absolutely off because a woman has the ability to get herself sterilized so to speak just as a Man can. Sterilization to me has no place in this debate, nor are women only allowed to abort to rid themselves of the ability to concieve.

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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Post #: 35

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:36:27 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

You, to me, can't have it both ways, you can't say she has absolute right over the fetus which is both parents to the point of aborting it so it doesn't become viable because she doesn't want the responsibility or whatnot and the father has no choice -- and then say the father who is absolutely for the abortion and wants it then needs to be responsible for the mother's choice to allow the fetus to become viable because she wants the responsibility or whatnot and also expects the father to do so. To me, that is placing the decision of responsibility on the mother in a way that is wrong in many instances.

So i am torn because i don't have an absolute answer. I don't have concrete arguments so I am torn.

angel

Understandable, yet though both people involved in the creation of a fetus and the man does have a moral and ethical responsibility to share in the development of the fetus before and after birth,. It still boils down to the issue that a woman needs tl have the ultimate say over her own body just like we men have over ours. Sadly this has it's good points and a downside which we have to accept both.

Another angle to this is if a woman is denied the right to abort, then men should be denied the right to have themselves sterilized. as don't we have a responsibility to provide the sperm to fertilize the ovum? Yes I know this is taking it to an extreme yet I see it as still being valid to the topic.

the point here is that when having consensual sex she waived the 100% right to her body when the kid came on the scene by virtue of the contract of the 2 having a child that requires for shits and giggle parts from 2 cars to make one.

You now have a contract and 2 people invested in the one. It really is that simple.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Post #: 36

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:37:28 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

To me she had the say when she had sex.
angel

bingo!

They both did!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to barelynangel)

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Post #: 37

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:38:09 PM

Wolf2Bear

Posts: 3204
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

To me she had the say when she had sex. In the end in all actuality, the fetus is the PRODUCT of both people. In this day and age, to me, pregnancy is no surprise if someone determines to have sex. I don't believe a woman has a right to abort a possible child IF the Man wants the viable result of a product that is his. Just as i don't believe a man should have to be responsible for a viable product that he wanted aborted and she didn't.

You lost me what does abortion have to do with sterilization, you do realize women have the same option as men in that? Its called getting their tubes tied. So to me your second paragraph is absolutely off because a woman has the ability to get herself sterilized so to speak just as a Man can. Sterilization to me has no place in this debate, nor are women only allowed to abort to rid themselves of the ability to concieve.

angel

Yes I fully understand women and men have that option.

edited to remove paragraph.

nm: as we have never been able to have a rational discussion before and this is no different, I censored myself to avoid over explaining.

< Message edited by Wolf2Bear -- 3/21/2010 3:40:29 PM >

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to barelynangel)

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Post #: 38

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:38:19 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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Can't have one which I feel should disqualify me from a vote. From my perspective, I'm for personal choice, in all matters, this one is no different. A woman shouldn't be required to be a non-consensual incubator. For as long as she is; and until/unless her womb comes under government auspices, she should have the ability to make her own decision regarding termination her life support system.

While were at it; I don't feel that the government should having the exclusive right to 'abort' after birth as is used for the ultimate penalty in 'capital punishment' cases. A person should have the right, and comfortable access, to abort his/her self as well. Right to death should be fought on equal terms as right to life. In both cases, the opposition wants to take away personal choice; but few, if any, in opposition are willing to the necessary resources to provide 24/7 care with the same vigor as they fight they are making against personal choice.

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Post #: 39

RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:38:22 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
the point here is that when having consensual sex she waived the 100% right to her body when the kid came on the scene by virtue of the contract of the 2 having a child that requires for shits and giggle parts from 2 cars to make one.

You now have a contract and 2 people invested in the one. It really is that simple.

You make the assumption that the contract was to have a baby.

With the number of men and women slutting around looking for "no strings attached" potential babymaking, I'd be more likely to think the contract was to NOT have a baby. That's what no strings attached means and a baby is a hell of a string.

(in reply to Real0ne)

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Post #: 40