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[Poll]

Abortion


I'm against ALL abortions
  2% (4)
I'm for allowing abortion in ANY circumstance
  26% (38)
I'm against it, unless the LIFE of the mother is at risk
  6% (10)
I'm for it being legal, but I hate it
  23% (34)
I'm against it, unless the general health of the mom is at risk
  4% (6)
Keep it legal, only if rape, incest or the mom's life is involved
  6% (10)
I don't care one way or the other
  3% (5)
I believe there is life at conception
  13% (19)
I believe life begins between 3 and 9 months
  6% (10)
I believe life only begins after birth
  6% (10)


Total Votes : 146
(last vote on : 3/18/2011 4:38:46 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:03:09 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Don't like abortion, don't have one. It isn't debatable in my universe. I know what countries that deny women's medical rights are like, and I do not want to live in that sort of world, you do, then move to the Middle East



For the record, elective abortion is illegal in all but two of Australian states, and we're hardly the Middle East.

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 3/21/2010 4:04:22 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:03:39 PM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		If you don't have the guts to rip a baby out of it's womb, and throw it in the trash can yourself, then you shouldn't support abortion and expect others to do your dirty work for you.

Case closed.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:05:11 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

My general answer to that is, if a person feels that what is being aborted is a living person, then should they not speak out?


That is exactly how I used to feel when I was pro-life and to be honest I still don't have an answer to that...the only thing I can think of that is comparable is the fact that if a person is in a vegetative state, their parent/spouse/child has the legal right to turn off the machines - and in this case, the pregnant woman herself is the "machine" and she can decide to turn it off so long as the fetus requires the 'machine' to live.

It's why the option to abort usually ends when the baby becomes even close to viable.


But the difference there is, the child/fetus/fucking thing (grins at Rich) is virtually guaranteed to "come out" of that "state".

There's a lot I don't have answers for either. I appreciate your input, Elisabella!

_____________________________

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Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:07:41 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

If you don't have the guts to rip a baby out of it's womb, and throw it in the trash can yourself, then you shouldn't support abortion and expect others to do your dirty work for you.

Case closed.
Now that the case is closed...can we move onto other areas of interest...like for instance we could discuss repealing the law that made cucky here king!

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:08:41 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Fast Reply -- In this day and age with all the education out there and commercials etc about birth control -- can we really say that people who have sex don't have a full knowledge of the major consequence of doing so?

I don't see ignorance as being a reason that 2 people don't recognize what consequence can occur when having sex even protected sex. To me that is just reaching.

angel



Don't get into a car or you might get into an accident. And it will be your fault and you should not receive medical treatment because you know the risks of motor crashes.

- LA



_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:13:13 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:


Don't like abortion, don't have one. It isn't debatable in my universe. I know what countries that deny women's medical rights are like, and I do not want to live in that sort of world, you do, then move to the Middle East

You know I'm so on your side about the abortion issue Julia, but the Middle East comment has got to go. There is broad acceptance the main Islamic and Jewish schools of law on the permissibility of abortion in the first four months of pregnancy.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:15:17 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Don't like abortion, don't have one. It isn't debatable in my universe. I know what countries that deny women's medical rights are like, and I do not want to live in that sort of world, you do, then move to the Middle East



For the record, elective abortion is illegal in all but two of Australian states, and we're hardly the Middle East.




I wonder what the illegal abortion trade is like over there? I wonder, do women over there use clothes hangers still, or  are there more humane ways to go about it?

I also wonder, do you guys have a social system that gives medical care to women and children, how about economic support? Oh, you do, don't you... in fact I have online friends from Australia that have told me your social system was very generous.

Here, we have these religious fundies that do not want to help women and children, look at the healthcare debate threads. We refuse to openly help women and children here, basically we have a "screw you" attitude to mothers and children. Women pay more for medical insurance, too... because we get pregnant.

So before you go comparing our two countries, it would be best to make a comparison about how civil the US is toward the most vulnerable amongst us before depriving women of reproductive choice... we make less annually than men, we have more obligation and responsibility when men leave without support (which they often do) and the government isn't that keen on helping women..


_____________________________

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(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:15:58 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Don't like abortion, don't have one. It isn't debatable in my universe. I know what countries that deny women's medical rights are like, and I do not want to live in that sort of world, you do, then move to the Middle East



For the record, elective abortion is illegal in all but two of Australian states, and we're hardly the Middle East.


It is permissible in the Middle East. Look at my post above. This isn't aimed at either of you but a general reminder that all should stop making assumptions about the Middle East.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:16:56 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:


Don't like abortion, don't have one. It isn't debatable in my universe. I know what countries that deny women's medical rights are like, and I do not want to live in that sort of world, you do, then move to the Middle East

You know I'm so on your side about the abortion issue Julia, but the Middle East comment has got to go. There is broad acceptance the main Islamic and Jewish schools of law on the permissibility of abortion in the first four months of pregnancy.

- LA


In Saudi Arabia? In Afghanistan?....


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:17:35 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		LA, when i get into a car i know i could possibly be in an accident. However, the accident isn't necessarily the fault of the person who determined to drive. My determination to drive doesn't mean i consent to someone causing an accident when i am driving. That's why laws are there that show if its comparitable fault or not. And yes, there are times when an accident is considered 50/50 at fault which means both drivers were at fault due to their actions.

People having sex especially CONSENSUALLY, know that they could make a fetus and that fetus is a 50/50 combination of them both. Ignorance is not plausible this day and age to me. Others may believe there with all the advertising and education ect there still is ignorance especially among adults. All i am saying is -- if a fetus comes about BOTH parties have a right to make determinations for that fetus.


The product of an accident is not necessarily a 50/50 comparatible fault. I can give you right now at least 20 lawsuits that show that one party was not at fault for the accident despite their decision to drive. You can't do that with a fetus unless someone can prove rape because the fetus is 50/50 both parties.

angel



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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:18:05 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		So, they don't all ride camels?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:19:29 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:


Don't like abortion, don't have one. It isn't debatable in my universe. I know what countries that deny women's medical rights are like, and I do not want to live in that sort of world, you do, then move to the Middle East

You know I'm so on your side about the abortion issue Julia, but the Middle East comment has got to go. There is broad acceptance the main Islamic and Jewish schools of law on the permissibility of abortion in the first four months of pregnancy.

- LA


In Saudi Arabia? In Afghanistan?....



You said Middle East. You did not say specific countries. My Iranian and Lebanese friends confirm that they are a legal there. I'd have to look at each country's law, but I would do just that before making assumptions.

Bottom line is that there is nothing in Islamic or Jewish law that prevents it. It is to see what the civil code says.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:20:29 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Don't like abortion, don't have one. It isn't debatable in my universe. I know what countries that deny women's medical rights are like, and I do not want to live in that sort of world, you do, then move to the Middle East



For the record, elective abortion is illegal in all but two of Australian states, and we're hardly the Middle East.


Same applies for Ireland where it is still illegal unless it threatens a womans life

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(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:20:50 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		Do I detect a slight note of disappointment, Level? 

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:21:56 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		juliaoceania, let me ask you this -- you say you would be part of an underground to get women abortions. Would you also accept the responsibility of being charged with manslaughter if women you help get illegal abortions die due to having the illegal abortion? Would you take on the financial responsibility of lawsuits against you from fathers ad family who are then denied the life of the child or the mother if she dies due to the illegal abortion?

While i admire your focus and such -- i wonder how much you would sacrifice to be a part of an underground.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 3/21/2010 4:24:10 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:22:20 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

People having sex especially CONSENSUALLY, know that they could make a fetus and that fetus is a 50/50 combination of them both. Ignorance is not plausible this day and age to me. Others may believe there with all the advertising and education ect there still is ignorance especially among adults. All i am saying is -- if a fetus comes about BOTH parties have a right to make determinations for that fetus.


This is the part that burns my bottom the most... those who want to punish consensual sex with forcing women to have babies... it is absurd!

This goes along with the "Abortion is permissible if the woman is raped or the pregnancy is a result of incest" as if a baby born of rape is less human than one born out of love... what utter shit. If abortion is murder then it shouldn't matter how the fetus was made, seriously, what a flawed argument this is...

And this is what makes me think that denying women choice is really about punishing them for enjoying sex and to keep them down... control their sexuality. If it was truly about the life of the fetus this view that abortion is okay for rape victims wouldn't exist


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:26:51 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

LA, when i get into a car i know i could possibly be in an accident. However, the accident isn't necessarily the fault of the person who determined to drive


Same thing when I have sex, because no matter how much I protect myself, no birth control method is full proof.

I don't mean to offend you personally but the rest of your argument doesn't hold water. People are on that road consensually just as much as they are in bed together consensually. In all situations, people have a choice and study risks.

- LA


< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 3/21/2010 4:27:38 PM >

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:27:19 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Umm Juliaoceania, i am not into punishing anyone mother OR father. What about the fathers being punished who want the child the fetus may become? But i guess its okay to punish him? Forcing the Man to live with the idea if he believes it was so that his child was MURDERED by his mother? I am not calling it murder mind you -- i don't personally think you can murder a fetus, i think you can cause the fetus to not become viable. BUT some people actually believe abortion is murder and a father who wants the child can see this as murdering his child and is that not punishing HIM for life?

Sure you don't want the mother punished if she wants an abortion for her decision to have consensual sex but it seems you are all for the father being so if she decides to have an abortion.

I simply don't agree that the father deserves to be punished either. I believe they also have a choice. Hopefully because of the consensual sex it will be a decision they both agree on or yes SOMEONE gets punished.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 3/21/2010 4:33:34 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:29:46 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

So, they don't all ride camels?


Another misconception. Camels are in the desert parts and not all over the Middle East. Gosh, I'm going to have to school you all in Middle East Studies or something? Problem is most of what I know about the Middle East I know from Middle Eastern lovers ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:31:07 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		LA, the laws don't support your theories. The rights of the drivers is to drive on the roads. The right of the driver isn't to cause an accident thereby causing injuries and damage to others because of their actions. The accident is NOT concensual between the two parties -- however by law the actions of both parties can make the accident concensual in nature thereby having comparative fault..

Sex on most occassions is.

You are comparing sex with driving instead of sex with the accident. The accident is the actions that cause th injuries not the driving. Just like its the intercourse that cause the fetus not the kissing and touching before hand. If she allows his dick in her she is comparably at fault for any fetus that results -- just as he is. Therefore, the fetus is a 50/50 combination of both due to their comparable actions that resulted in the fetus.


angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


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Profile   Post #: 80
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