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[Poll]

Abortion


I'm against ALL abortions
  2% (4)
I'm for allowing abortion in ANY circumstance
  26% (38)
I'm against it, unless the LIFE of the mother is at risk
  6% (10)
I'm for it being legal, but I hate it
  23% (34)
I'm against it, unless the general health of the mom is at risk
  4% (6)
Keep it legal, only if rape, incest or the mom's life is involved
  6% (10)
I don't care one way or the other
  3% (5)
I believe there is life at conception
  13% (19)
I believe life begins between 3 and 9 months
  6% (10)
I believe life only begins after birth
  6% (10)


Total Votes : 146
(last vote on : 3/18/2011 4:38:46 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:40:18 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		I would clarify, i have no issue with abortion or prochoice as long as both parents are on the same page, i believe the choice concept goes for both parents. The problem i see with my view is what happens when the Man doesn't know or she doesn't tell him or she doesn't know who is the father.

But i don't have the answers which is why i am torn.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:40:34 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

That being said I feel that while abortion is legal, there should be an equivalent option for the father to abdicate all paternal rights and responsibilities, because if a woman has the right to choose whether or not she will become a mother, a father should have the same right. It bothers me how the "if you didn't want to become a parent you shouldn't have had sex" argument is supported when it comes to child support payments but not for abortion.


All I can say is that my few friends who decided to go forward with the pregnancy and have the child with the explicit disapproval of the father in the beginning never asked the father for anything and assumed raising the child on their own.

As I mentioned in a previous post, those that had an abortion was as a result of a discussion with the other conceiving party.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:42:27 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
quote:

nm: as we have never been able to have a rational discussion before and this is no different, I censored myself to avoid over explaining.


Bear i have never tried to HAVE a dicussion with you other than in debates where we didn't agree. To me its statements like this which are VERY immature and probably why if you believe that its true. Next time, you may just want to delete the paragraph and simply leave it as that instead of making it personal.

Or you can simply NOT respond to posts. But i guess that's too easy you have to make it personal.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:42:34 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I fully realise you were just trying to make a point....and lord knows I have said some damm offensise things to make mine,but "a baby is a hell of a string".LOL see what happens when one engages RealOne....one is forced to all sorts of extremes

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:42:44 PM   
Wolf2Bear


Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline 		~FR~ Level, as much as I would enjoy a civilized discussion, I have to walk away before I say things that should never be said to a woman let alone another person.

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:44:21 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

That being said I feel that while abortion is legal, there should be an equivalent option for the father to abdicate all paternal rights and responsibilities, because if a woman has the right to choose whether or not she will become a mother, a father should have the same right. It bothers me how the "if you didn't want to become a parent you shouldn't have had sex" argument is supported when it comes to child support payments but not for abortion.


All I can say is that my few friends who decided to go forward with the pregnancy and have the child with the explicit disapproval of the father in the beginning never asked the father for anything and assumed raising the child on their own.



I applaud your friends decisions (both of them) but at the same time, the law protects people from immoral people, not from moral people. If everyone made choices like that, there would be no need for a father to abdicate responsibility, but unfortunately people don't.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:44:36 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		i didnt vote because there was no the woman has to decide whether it is right for her at that time in her life and then do what she knows is best choice....as easy or as hard as it may be for her.

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:45:04 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		It is incredibly difficult to find an OB/GYN who will do this if you're young and/or haven't had children.  I asked for one when I was 26 and was refused.

There are other women here who had the same problem.
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

You lost me what does abortion have to do with sterilization, you do realize women have the same option as men in that? Its called getting their tubes tied.

angel

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:45:36 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline



quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I fully realise you were just trying to make a point....and lord knows I have said some damm offensise things to make mine,but "a baby is a hell of a string".LOL see what happens when one engages RealOne....one is forced to all sorts of extremes


Heheheeeee yeah I get snotty sometimes

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:45:46 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I wonder why all the energy invested on this topic... abortion is about the right to receive medical treatment and to have privacy woman and her doctor. I do not care what men do with their penis and their sperm, nor what treatment a doctor performs on their penis. I do not care if they get their equipment snipped, etc...

All I want is privacy in my treatment per as is allowed by the constitution of the United States...

Your opinion is well known on the subject, and I would say if you do not like women having medical freedom you can always move to Afghanistan, they do not like women going to a doctor either, even attacking women for getting prenatal care, birth control, etc... I like having freedom and I am willing to do much to maintain it. If they ever illegalized abortion I would be involved in an underground railroad to help women maintain their reproductive freedom and not be enslaved by neanderthals

There is no common ground on this topic, no minds will be changed, it is basically flamebait


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:46:36 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Fast Reply -- In this day and age with all the education out there and commercials etc about birth control -- can we really say that people who have sex don't have a full knowledge of the major consequence of doing so?

I don't see ignorance as being a reason that 2 people don't recognize what consequence can occur when having sex even protected sex. To me that is just reaching.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to Wolf2Bear)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:49:05 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
quote:

It is incredibly difficult to find an OB/GYN who will do this if you're young and/or haven't had children. I asked for one when I was 26 and was refused.


So you see abortion as an alternative? In the past it as been difficult but i believe its getting easier, i have know a couple women who are under 30 and not married who have had it and they didn't have any difficult other than questions of are you sure? I do know a couple women who about 15 years ago did have a hard time. I don't know about nowadays except for the women i know who have had it.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:51:43 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella





quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I fully realise you were just trying to make a point....and lord knows I have said some damm offensise things to make mine,but "a baby is a hell of a string".LOL see what happens when one engages RealOne....one is forced to all sorts of extremes


Heheheeeee yeah I get snotty sometimes
Pish tosh...I thought it was damm funny....despite being (and this is a father of a much loved child talking) wholely inappropriate....lol

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:54:05 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Can't have one which I feel should disqualify me from a vote. From my perspective, I'm for personal choice, in all matters, this one is no different. A woman shouldn't be required to be a non-consensual incubator. For as long as she is; and until/unless her womb comes under government auspices, she should have the ability to make her own decision regarding termination her life support system.

While were at it; I don't feel that the government should having the exclusive right to 'abort' after birth as is used for the ultimate penalty in 'capital punishment' cases. A person should have the right, and comfortable access, to abort his/her self as well. Right to death should be fought on equal terms as right to life. In both cases, the opposition wants to take away personal choice; but few, if any, in opposition are willing to the necessary resources to provide 24/7 care with the same vigor as they fight they are making against personal choice.


I agree on both points regarding the death penalty, and right to death.


quote:

zephy:

I agree with all of the above, and Level, even if we are on opposite sides of this issue, I still loves you


Thank you, sweet lady.

quote:

Navina:

I'm all for abortion being legal, but I detest the act itself. Who am I to decide what another woman does with her own body?


My general answer to that is, if a person feels that what is being aborted is a living person, then should they not speak out? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, just using your post lol. Thank you for your input.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:58:06 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Actually Juliaoceania, i disagree. I use to be HARDCORE Pro choice on behalf of the woman. Until talking anout it and people who went through it and Men etc changed me to more of a concept of the fetus is the product of both parents, where the fetus is is simply geography.

Its a hard topic, but people have the option of choosing NOT to discuss it. Because what it comes down to when it breaks into anger is people pissed off others don't agree with them. In the end, its simply discussion and discussion is what helps people at times to figure out their views and gain ALL information.

For example, i disagree your privacy extends to the fetus. The fetus' privacy is that of BOTH parents not just the mother because of geography. Sure you have the right to privacy but in all actuality you don't have exclusive right to me to the fetus' privacy.

As i said, i don't have the concrete arguments or answers but that fetus is the product of two people not just the mother. The decision to hinder or allow its growth into viability to me is that of both people.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:58:24 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

My general answer to that is, if a person feels that what is being aborted is a living person, then should they not speak out?


That is exactly how I used to feel when I was pro-life and to be honest I still don't have an answer to that...the only thing I can think of that is comparable is the fact that if a person is in a vegetative state, their parent/spouse/child has the legal right to turn off the machines - and in this case, the pregnant woman herself is the "machine" and she can decide to turn it off so long as the fetus requires the 'machine' to live.

It's why the option to abort usually ends when the baby becomes even close to viable.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:59:32 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I'm pro-choice right up to the point where we can just put a preemie up for adoption.  The sovereignty of a woman over her body has to trump the values conflict.

That said, I find it pretty distasteful, and like to remind the feminazi's of the bigger picture by saying that I fully support the right of asshole men to hand a woman a couple hundred bucks and tell her to get rid of the fucking thing.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 3:59:54 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Your opinion is well known on the subject, and I would say if you do not like women having medical freedom you can always move to Afghanistan

There is no common ground on this topic, no minds will be changed, it is basically flamebait



Now julia.... show me one post where I've flamed anyone over this. Goddam, I catch more flack for it than the other way around.

And no Afghanistan for me, I don't look good in a turban.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:00:17 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

For example, i disagree your privacy extends to the fetus.


I do not care what your opinion is, I care what the constitution says.

Period... end of story for me

Don't like abortion, don't have one. It isn't debatable in my universe. I know what countries that deny women's medical rights are like, and I do not want to live in that sort of world, you do, then move to the Middle East


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Abortion - 3/21/2010 4:02:49 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Please clarify for me where in the Constitution it gives you exclusive rights to the privacy of a fetus? NOT YOU, but a fetus?

It actually privacy doesn't allow you the right to do anything you want medically.. It allows you the mother to keep your medical records PRIVATE, it doesn't allow you to do what you will with your body unless given the right by law. For example, a doctor cannot kill you based upon YOUR determination to die, a doctor does not have to operate on you if they do not feel it is in your best interest etc. So privacy doesn't mean you are able to medically do what you will with your body.

angel



< Message edited by barelynangel -- 3/21/2010 4:04:26 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 60
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