RE: Health care passes (Full Version)

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mcbride -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 8:49:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: soflamaster

the goverment has never run anythng successufly what makes you think they can run run the healt care


About three dozen countries, most less affluent than the US, whose public, universal health care gets better results for much less money.




kdsub -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 8:52:15 PM)

I hope Republicans are happy with the bill...they deserve it.

If they had joined in the debate and submitted alternative propositions and worked for America instead of their party they could have changed this bill to one more agreeable to all Americans...even their electorate.

Butch




Thadius -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 8:53:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

You are an arrogant little shit aren't you? Saying that in my opinion this is not an economic issue.....is not the same thing as saying economics has nothing to do with it.Has the number 16% any meaning to you....I happen to know it is the percentage of our GDP that is spent on health care.Does the number 48 million mean anything to you,that is the number of Americans that most agree are now uninsured....Now try to stay with me here wiiling toserve....we as a country spend more on our health care while leaving a large number of us uncovered that to me makes no sense...either on an economic nor a moral level....No my young friend this is not an economic issue it is a moral issue and it so happens it is the overriding moral issue of our day


And with the rosiest of estimates the current bill when fully implemented will only cover 30 million of those 48 million...

Mike, do a google search on HIPA. It would have been a great place to start making tweaks to get folks covered without needing 2700+ pages...




Aylee -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 8:57:18 PM)

Dude. . . seriously. . . lay off the jack and coke before posting. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: soflamaster

Im so glad all you liberal like this

Breathe for a moment.  The liberals like this bill because they really think that it is the best way to get everyone access to healthcare.  They are not seeing it as an evil commie take over. 
quote:

 and I hope you dont have young kids

Why?  Children not having access to healthcare is something they are concerned about. 
quote:

beacause if they are youn and healthy if they dont get the helathcare that was passed they can be fined $3,000

That is NOT true.  First off, it would be the parents that would be fined for not insuring their children.  Secondly it would be at the upper range a $695 fine.  The $2000 fine is for employers of a certain number of employees not offering or providing insurance.  *sheesh*
quote:

but can also go to jail.

Umm, no.  Again, not kids, their parents. 
quote:

the goverment has never run anythng successufly

Our military is rather successful. 
quote:

what makes you think they can run run the healt care

[8|] Doesn't this qualify as the black swan fallacy?


Now I must go cleanse myself after defending liberals.  Yerlch!




Aylee -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 8:59:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I hope Republicans are happy with the bill...they deserve it.

If they had joined in the debate and submitted alternative propositions and worked for America instead of their party they could have changed this bill to one more agreeable to all Americans...even their electorate.

Butch



Butch, they did submit them.  Obama even said that he read them. 




Musicmystery -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:01:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

YES WE CAN!

Even David Frum gets it.
http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

Maybe, just maybe, this will wake up the old school republicans and we'll see some changes in leadership and some serious attempts at bipartisanship.


It's a good piece.

I too would like to see the return of real Republicans, not the TV manufactured voice that gambled and lost on this:


"A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves.

"At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.

"Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton’s 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94. And of course the Democrats also remember their history, and also remember the consequences of their 1994 failure.

"This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

"Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

"Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law."

"There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother?

"Overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds.

"So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours."




slvemike4u -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:02:42 PM)

Thad it's late...yet even at this late hour(I've been watching this shit for the last 8 hours)I can off the top of my head tell you that even with only covering 30 or 32 million...the number of uncovered is reduced to to 18 or 16 million people.Is that acceptable,no but it is as I have said a couple of times tonite just a first step.
Bythe way,why is it that after the fact opponents of this bill(not necessarily you Thad) will now decry that it is inadequate...this after fighting tooth and nail to make sure nothing was done?
I will look at HIPA Thad,if not tonite tomorrow...I have an early doctors appointment....lol,yes I have coverage...and had it with or without this bill.




Brain -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:05:01 PM)

It's pretty simple, it's because they are corrupt.   Republicans are 100% corrupt Democrats are 65 percent corrupt and it's going to stay that way until they get the money out of politics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Is anyone else a bit squicked that such a monumentally important bill passed by such a small margin, and with a significant number of Dems opposing?


Yes.  For all the claims that most Americans want this, I find it strange that our representatives can only manage barely more than 50%.




DomKen -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:09:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I hope Republicans are happy with the bill...they deserve it.

If they had joined in the debate and submitted alternative propositions and worked for America instead of their party they could have changed this bill to one more agreeable to all Americans...even their electorate.

Butch



Butch, they did submit them.  Obama even said that he read them. 

Actually this bill has many components that were part of previous Republican HCR plans.




kdsub -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:10:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I hope Republicans are happy with the bill...they deserve it.

If they had joined in the debate and submitted alternative propositions and worked for America instead of their party they could have changed this bill to one more agreeable to all Americans...even their electorate.

Butch



Butch, they did submit them.  Obama even said that he read them. 



I would love for you to point me to a link that describes them.... I don't mean a proposition by an individual Republican I mean an alternate plan agreed upon and submitted by the minority party... I live in Republican state and no alternatives were presented to us.

If there had been a viable alternative plan some parts could have found their way in the final proposal. The Democratic plan was put forth with a majority of the party approval. What Republican proposition was voted on approved and presented by their party?

None

Butch




mcbride -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:10:05 PM)

Congrats to everyone in the US on health care...just a small step, perhaps, but one giant leap over those who were paid to defend profits over lives.




BKSir -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:10:07 PM)

But aren't we forgetting the most important thing to come of this?  Rush Limbaugh said he was going to leave the country and go to Costa Rica if it passed!
[sm=cheerleader.gif]  




Brain -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:12:06 PM)

It's already been tried in other countries and it works, that's why.  Other countries spend less money and get better results.

You should watch Frontline, Sick Around the World on the PBS website.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/


quote:

ORIGINAL: WantingToServe11

Some of you support a public option yet many of you have limited knowledge of economics and the forces that determine the cost of every product and resource supplied. So, why do you guys support a public option and tell me how thats going to fix the "inflation" issue in our system? The answer is a trick question; a public option isn't going to increase the value of our dollar, get rid of our obesity epidemic, limit corporatism, allow capitalism to be capitalism, prevent government intervention in certain areas, and improve our overall foundations of society like culture, education, and economic and social infrastructures. In other words, it not that we don't have a public option as being the problem but corruption, government intervention, and poor management of our currency. 




Lucylastic -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:12:24 PM)

nah the scum sucking ditch pig backed off that when he found out they had socialised health care




Musicmystery -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:13:51 PM)

Besides, they have radio in Costa Rica.




BKSir -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:16:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

nah the scum sucking ditch pig backed off that when he found out they had socialised health care


Hey!  I'll not have you talking about scum sucking ditch pigs that way, young lady!

In all seriousness though.  I'm glad something passed.  I'm glad they finally friggin grew a pair.  Now, to keep moving forward.




Thadius -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:18:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I hope Republicans are happy with the bill...they deserve it.

If they had joined in the debate and submitted alternative propositions and worked for America instead of their party they could have changed this bill to one more agreeable to all Americans...even their electorate.

Butch



Butch, they did submit them.  Obama even said that he read them. 



I would love for you to point me to a link that describes them.... I don't mean a proposition by an individual Republican I mean an alternate plan agreed upon and submitted by the minority party... I live in Republican state and no alternatives were presented to us.

If there had been a viable alternative plan some parts could have found their way in the final proposal. The Democratic plan was put forth with a majority of the party approval. What Republican proposition was voted on approved and presented by their party?

None

Butch


Butch,

You would have to go over to GOP.com or whatever it is to see the proposals, or search the Thomas system for the plans that were presented in the committees (most never saw the light of day, because they were minority legislation). The one committee that was pretty fair in the process was the one chaired by Sen. Baucas (sp?). Remember it is the majority that gets to set the agenda and decides what gets voted on, which is the way it should be. Also as Ken pointed out there were a few things included from the Repub plans.

If you are looking for more specifics, simply read through the text of the "health care summit", you know the one where the President closed by saying that there would be 6 weeks to work out some compromises...

As always,
Thadius




Brain -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:19:07 PM)

They voted no because their votes were not needed to pass this bill, so they think it will be easier to win the next election with a no vote. Of course, I completely disagree with this approach. Like Michael Moore says Democrats need to get a spine.


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Panda any Democrat who voted against this....because he thought it didn't go far enough...is a fool.Going any farther would have been the death of this bill.This is all that was possible....the 34 will not have to defend their vote..while handing the Repubs an additional point to hammer their Democratic opponents this Nov.




tazzygirl -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:19:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: soflamaster

Im so glad all you liberal like this and I hope you dont have young kids beacause if they are youn and healthy if they dont get the helathcare that was passed they can be fined $3,000 but can also go to jail. the goverment has never run anythng successufly what makes you think they can run run the healt care


First year fine.. which doesnt start until 2013 or 14, under $100. Second, $750. I wish you would show me where you are getting this 3000 dollar price tag.




Aylee -> RE: Health care passes (3/21/2010 9:22:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: soflamaster

Im so glad all you liberal like this and I hope you dont have young kids beacause if they are youn and healthy if they dont get the helathcare that was passed they can be fined $3,000 but can also go to jail. the goverment has never run anythng successufly what makes you think they can run run the healt care


First year fine.. which doesnt start until 2013 or 14, under $100. Second, $750. I wish you would show me where you are getting this 3000 dollar price tag.


I am thinking that the Jack told him so.  Or maybe it was that Walker guy.  Or Jose. 




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