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One strike and out - 3/23/2010 6:12:23 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		OK saw a comment about this in another thread, in an otherwise realistic post, an intelligent girl that seems to understand that most things, even those that sound harsh initially (Unless being spouted by some troll or been-here-five-seconds-and-trying-too-hard-wannabe) are based in reality and are often very workable in practice.

There are several things in this relationship that My girl could do that IF she did then she would be risking instant dismissal and the perminant end of this relationship.

*Waits for the screaming to begin*

Hmmmm How many times does some girl come on here saying their 'master' has been doing something.... hit her in anger, ignored her needs, cheated on her, lied to her, etc..... and you lot who are squealing like a stuck pig over the notion that the Master might have "dealbreakers that He won't accept" have been advising the girl... get out, don't walk away... run!

There is no difference here... I have no problem with the notion that there are things that will cause even the most devoted of slaves to conclude the relationship is OVER.... Why do so many of you lot seem to have a problem with the fact that the Master will likewise have such?

In this Household both those are addressed.... The baseline is actually written in My profile... ""When you trust enough in Me, in My approach and in My duty of care, THEN you submit. Once you submit, you are Mine in mind, body and soul. If you ever loose that trust, the one and only choise that remains entirely yours is to walk away.... but it is a one way door"

If she ever looses her trust in who I am... then I expect her to call it a day.... But likewise, until then she is Mine, she knew what she was walking into and just as she trusts Me to uphold My side of this, I trust her to do her part. If she doesn't then I will be the one calling it a day.

One of those aspect is the 'wilful disobedience' bit... she gave up her right to say 'no'.. if she EVER digs her heels in that way, it's over.

Here is where We get to the issue of realism. Some seem to be assuming that such means the first problem she hits, the relationship ends. If that was the case, this relationship wouldn't have lasted two weeks.... there are more ways to tackle problems than the girl stamping her ickle feeties and proclaiming "No, shan't, won't, can't make me!" like a demented two year old.

In this household such problems are handled like adults. If she is given a task she will do her best to completing it... if she hits a major problem.... she brings that problem to Me and asks for help and advice as to what to do about it.

"Master, I've done what you asked upto this point but can't do THIS bit"... We discuss the problem, find out why and I decide the best way forward, that is then what is worked on... if another problem comes up then it in turn is brought to Me.

I maybe help her push through it... I maybe find another way to approach it... or I maybe even decide there is a way to achieve what I wanted without the problem area even involved and remove it from the equation. At no point is she simply deciding she WON'T do it.

she knows wilful disobedience isn't an option, there be dragons, don't go there... so she doesn't go there.

she doesn't feel like anything is held over her head about it... it isn't a threat, it is simply a known consequence. Do people in a monogamous relationship feel the 'cheat on me and its over' implicit in such a situation is held over their head? No, it is simply something they don't do (Assuming they value the relationship)

What's the malfunction folks are having with this issue? Why the difficulty in understanding a simple concept?


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This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 6:41:26 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		I gots no problem with the idea.


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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 6:56:20 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		i think that so much of what is discussed on here is 'in principle' by that i mean - in principle, chucking out an otherwise devoted and obedient submissive/slave seems a bit harsh.

in practice, in reality - calling it a day because trust has gone, obedience is wavering, the basic foundation upon which the relationship was built is undermining the TPE - is perfectly understandable.

i wouldnt see it as a threat either, i would see it as an outcome of something otherwise unravelling and no longer working.

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 7:08:40 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Quite so lally, as I pointed out I see this come up and posters who can see that in other situations completely failing to apply it to this one.

We all know there are limitations to communication. Ask a direct question of someone like Me and the direct answer is likely to sound abrupt and harsh..... But the way it is handled in practice can seem anything but.

Harsh = "Step outside the Dynamic and it is over"... not harsh = "I teach My girl/s how to handle problems within the relationship and without stepping outside the Dynamic..because within the Dynamic I can help, I have the Authority to do whatever I need to do to keep us on track. Once they step outside the Dynamic they have tied My hands, I can't sort their problem I no longer have Authority nor consent... They know this, they know I trust them to work WITH Me not against Me... they have broken My trust and a fundamental cornerstone of the Dynamic"

But yet they say the same thing!


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 7:25:21 AM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		My personal response: Absolutely, i totally agree. It's not all about me.

Thoughtfully, i think one reason for the paradox is that we (the general "we") convey upon Masters a higher degree of responsibility for the relationship, and for their behavior within it, then we do upon the slave.

For example, if a Master were to repeatedly be late for meetings with his slave, never answer her messages, or forget to call when he says he would, we might say, oh, he's irresponsible and incapable of Mastering himself, and his commitments to his slave, so how can he Master her? But if the slave repeatedly does such things, we might say to the Master, oh, well she's a slave, it's to be expected, and what can the Master do to "fix" her issues with timeliness, attention, and commitment?

We more easily forgive the slave than the Master. It's human nature, really. Is it right? i don't think so. One thing i've been thinking about lately is how it seems to be acceptable to forget that the Master is on his own personal journey through life, just like the slave, and that he is engaging as a Master to grow as an individual in his own power and authority and self-pride. There is validity in this and it should be validated.

So the slave that repeatedly breaks trust and willfully disobeys, should be held to the same standard, in my assessment of things. Just my thought process. Just because i am a slave doesn't mean i can shirk my responsibilities in the relationship - they are there, and there for a reason, and it is an understanding that deepens the bond between us both.

< Message edited by UniqueRaven -- 3/23/2010 7:26:30 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 7:50:07 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Oh believe Me I am as guilty of that as anyone, the first place in a D/s or M/s relationship I look at when there is a big problem... is at the D/ side... including in My Own relationship.

However if either have stepped away from the Dynamic there is no D/s or M/s... there is no 'relationship' at that point (Assuming it is based on having that Dynamic)... To Me neither side gets to call a time out. That maybe fine for a D/s couple with parts of their lives inside the Dynamic and parts outside, I can't speak for them, that's not how I am wired and I'm not compatible with a girl who thinks that way. For Me, the relationship Dynamic is the way We relate, who We are... if she has stepped away from that, then We are not relating, the relationship has already gone. she didn't trust Me to be able to steer Us through this. If I have not given her reason to doubt Me, reason to lack trust then there is simply not enough there to sustain the relationship.

For Me it is a one shot deal once that trust is broken, it can't be rebuilt.... something a girl is made aware of before she submits. If she keeps hold of My hand I'll go above and beyond to find solutions to any problem that We face... but her part is to work WITH Me. that's what I trust her to do. If she isn't then there is a fundamental flaw, a relationship ending flaw.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 8:04:37 AM   
Frankseas


Posts: 61
Joined: 1/16/2010
Status: offline 		Being a old Baseball fan I think that either way Master or slave should be given Three Strikes before it all ends no matter how little or how much times has been put into the relationship.

Both sides are human with those nasty emotions that flare up from time to time and no matter how bad things get, be like a supple reed learn to bend and not break.

Trust me some of the greatest treasures can be lost over a few silly words. And I am talking about my former slave who my heart still misses!

Be kind not pig headed and most of all listen to each other and understand what is being said. And most important always Love the one you are with!

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 8:08:26 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		First, RavenMuse, I'd like to say how glad I am to see you posting on the boards again.  I hope you and your girl are well.

I honestly don't have an answer for your questions because I hold the same opinion Myself.  I've expressed it here on a few subjects when the one strike and you're out issue has come up.  Often, I think people who oppose the principle are viewing it in the same way as those wonderful folks who pop up and give the 'I have no limits' line.  In truth, they really do have limits, they just haven't looked at the big enough picture to realize that there are things they would never possibly give their consent for participation.  (Just ask how many of those 'no limits' folks if they'll consent to being strapped down while I shove a pencil into their eye and see how many of them decide that they have limits after all.)

There are plenty of things that I can come up with in My mind that would constitute a once strike and you're out situation.  That goes for both My equality based marriage as well as My authority dynamic.  Sure, some of them are so horrendous that most people would never in their right mind ever conceive that the person they were involved with would ever do, but those things still do exist.  Without violating TOS, I'm betting any parent out there can think of at least one, and if THAT'S not a one strike and you're out situation, you probably shouldn't have been permitted to procreate in the first place.

While willful disobedience is nowhere near the extreme of anything that entered My mind in writing the above paragraph, it can be seen as a one strike and you're out area.  However, it isn't what most people think it is.  Just a simple case of the boy says no and then he gets shown the door.  I see it very similar to the process I discussed on heartfeltseb's thread regarding punishment dynamics.  Determining if an area is willful disobedience also plays a part in it.  What reason is he refusing to obey?  Did he understand what I expected of him?  What circumstances are surrounding it?  Was the command realistic?  Have I found an area that, for him as a human being, it literally is an issue of 'can't' rather than 'won't'?  Are there underlying issues?  Actually coming to the determination that something was a matter of willful disobedience only comes after a very long list of other possibilities.

To draw another parallel to the punishment dynamic thread, willful disobedience just doesn't happen anywhere near as much as most people seem to want to discuss it.  Just plain 'don't want to' doesn't come up a whole heck of a lot when you're dealing with someone who specifically wants to submit to you and please you.


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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 8:09:58 AM   
Shyla


Posts: 19
Joined: 5/30/2005
Status: offline 		I follow Raven around the boards just so I can agree with her

quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven

Thoughtfully, i think one reason for the paradox is that we (the general "we") convey upon Masters a higher degree of responsibility for the relationship, and for their behavior within it, then we do upon the slave.


We more easily forgive the slave than the Master. It's human nature, really. Is it right? i don't think so.

So the slave that repeatedly breaks trust and willfully disobeys, should be held to the same standard, in my assessment of things. Just my thought process. Just because i am a slave doesn't mean i can shirk my responsibilities in the relationship - they are there, and there for a reason, and it is an understanding that deepens the bond between us both.


No, really.  This screams about locus of control.  We expect M types to have an internal locus of control - in that they feel they are in control of their surroundings and have the ability to change their environment to suit them.  They take responsibility for their actins and (perhaps) even the actions of their property. 

We *allow* s-types to have an external locus of control, because it fits some kind of stereotype.  External locus of control means that people feel things are done to them.  They don't earn a grade with their hard work, they are given a grade by the teacher.  They don't earn a paycheck, it's simply given or withheld by those in authority.  They walk through life feeling things are done to them.

I am an s-type.  But I also have(?) an internal locus of control.  It is my duty to submit to my Daddy.  I may not dig in my heels and refuse, that goes against the entire purpose of why I want to be with him and why he wants to own me to begin with.  He's never *told* me I couldn't refuse.  He's just provided the environment in which refusal is not a rational option.  Being slave does not mean I am not responsible.  Outwardly my Owner is responsible for training me to behave as he wishes and present to society at large as he desires.  But within the confines of our relationship *I* am responsible for being open to his training, for carrying out his desires, for upholding my end of the 'bargain', so to speak.  His end - I will always be safe with him, lead, guided, nurtured, cared for, and will never have to agonize over a decision when I can simply bring it to him.  My end? I serve him unconditionally, love him unconditinally, surrender to him.  Easy things.  Scary things, but it is my responsibility to uphold my end of the bargain.  Only an internal locus of control will allow me to do that.

It's only when we expect s-types to have an internal locus of control will we (generic, culture at large) begin to be able to hold them to the same standards of behavior as M-types.  Too many people are willing to allow s-types to get away with and give in to victim mentality.  It doesn't help anyone when that mindset comes to play.

Somewhere, I started rambling.  I think at that same point I stopped making sense :)

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 8:15:05 AM   
Wolf2Bear


Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline 		Humans being who they are do make mistakes and aren't perfect. The concept i have a tough time understanding is knowing this; then any mistake I make will end the relationship right then and there. The problem I see over the " One strike and your out" is it fails to take into consideration compassion, understanding and forgiveness. If I have totally missed the point then someone just take a shotgun and just shoot me.

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Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
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Let me into your soul
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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 8:15:49 AM   
wisdomtogive


Posts: 636
Joined: 11/13/2009
Status: offline 		RavenMuse
At my blessed age and experience, there are only a few things that would cause me to live by the 'one strike and out', which i have always been up front with, be it in my vanilla marriage, D/s relationships and currently with Sir, in M/s relationship. These are areas known, discussed and covered, so it cannot be said, oh I didn't know by them.

On the same footing, i am aware of the areas that would bring about the 'one strike and out', with them. It would not occur to me to use them on them, so i can see if they mean it. To me, it is an honored commitment on my part to not cross that line. i do not want out that door, and will do all i can to not be shown the door.

In my world, i see this as a powerful, straight-forward way of living. It kept my marriage together for 29 years, and it keeps me living in the limits Sir needs from me. No guessing is needed here, nor testing, since the outcome will equal only 2 things for me..out the door, or if He doesn't, then lost of respect for not owning up to His own words. Either way, both spell the end of a relationship, which is not what i want. i am an adult, and if i feel this relationship needs to end, i will be an adult and ask for dismissal, not to bring it about by hurting or angering him.

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 8:17:43 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Here's my original quote you're referring to:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
Since so many Masters, especially here in the forums, have "one strike and you're out" dynamics, I assumed that I would not have been compatible with any of them. Even if our kinks were a good match, we had chemistry, they were intelligent and interesting, and so forth, as soon as I discovered that someone had that rule, I knew they were not an option. If I'm submissive toward someone, I try my level best to do what they want and be what they want. Having that threat hanging over my head would make me constantly fearful of messing up. I know I'm not perfect. My Master doesn't take that approach, but feels that a pattern of disobedience might indeed indicate incompatibility, or a major problem, or just that I'm not submissive to him. I have no problem with that, and agree with him.


Unique, if I were *consistently* or repeatedly disobedient, then something would be seriously wrong. I wouldn't be in a M/s relationship with him in the first place if I didn't want to obey him, so doing that would generally indicate that the dynamic was broken. If I were struggling with one specific thing, I would bring that to him, and we'd brainstorm on ways to help me through it. I can't imagine just throwing a hissy fit or doing so disrespectfully - that really isn't my style. If I truly couldn't do one particular thing he expected or wanted of me, we'd sort out some baby steps, or he might decide that particular thing isn't all that important to him, or he might indeed decide that it is a dealbreaker - impossible to know without specifics. To me, there is a huge difference between a repeated pattern and a one-time mistake, in that area.

Muse, my Master has told me that lying to him is a dealbreaker, and I assume that cheating would be as well. I *know* what those specific dealbreakers are, and I feel I can realistically promise not to do them. Disobedience covers such a huge range of different things, that I don't feel I can do so. I'm not a brat, I wouldn't run around stamping my feet or yelling at him or anything of the sort. If I have a struggle with something, I bring it to him, pretty much as you described. If I were extremely upset or exhausted though, I think it is possible that I might momentarily rebel, or not express things well. I certainly would try never to let that happen, but I trust him to deal with it reasonably if I did (and I might indeed have a consequence or punishment if I behaved poorly over it).

When I was looking, I did rule out anyone who had a "one strike and you're out" philosophy, and I still find it difficult to wrap my mind around, with respect to other peoples' relationships. Personally, I *would* feel that someone with that rule was insecure in their authority and looking for an excuse to dump me. Similarly, people who are obsessed with "topping from the bottom" seem to conjure up motivations that don't exist, and assume manipulation even when there isn't any. That attitude from someone who I had promised to obey, was willing to do anything in my power to make them as pleased as possible, would be very discouraging and hurtful. So, as much as possible, when I was looking, I tried to find out a man's philosophy and approach to D/s or M/s. I asked about his general expectations were of me, built trust in him as a reasonable person who has my best interests to heart, I evaluated whether he was secure in his dominance rather than merely domineering, and whether I genuinely reacted to submissively. I'm very happy that I was able to find all of that with my Master. I don't ever step outside the dynamic - I'm his slave all the time, just as I'm his girlfriend all the time. It would be absurd to start and stop, and would mean that there was no genuine power exchange there in the first place.

If I'm struggling that much with something, I don't want to comply out of fear that he'll dump me if I wont, I want to do it because it makes him happy. I want to know that if I'm having that much trouble, that he's on my side, trying to help me through it, encouraging me, praising the steps I make in the direction he wants. As much as possible, I tried to alert him to potential difficult areas, and we've already worked through some of them, and I am very proud to have accomplished that. If he had said, "Do it or I'll dump you," I would have been very hurt, and very likely would have left. In general, I'm not a fan of ultimatums, especially really wide-ranging ones like this.

I wasn't intending to criticise others for their relationships, just explaining how it came across to me, and why I felt it made me incompatible with them. It obviously works well for some other folks, including you and your slave.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 3/23/2010 8:19:55 AM >

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 8:23:04 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Very well, LP, many thanks,

Yep it is the same as the statement "she doesn't have a right to say no", most seem to take that as a literal speech restriction... rather than in the CONTEXT of the discussion... as in "No" in the context of wilful disobedience. "She doesn't have the right to wilfully disobey" is a but of a mouthful in comparison. she certainly says no in the context of banter, she just can never mean it.

And there is a huge difference between "I won't" and "I can't".... I won't is a choise, a decision, those are Mine, not hers... I can't is a statement of fact, a point of reality, a problem being brought to Me to help find a solution to.


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This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 8:26:25 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I have to pretty well agree with you RavenMuse.  There are some things that we can work on.  There are some things, though, that should be solid and never, ever messed with.  Those things are different in various relationships (actionwise, though the root issue may still be the same).  Bedrocks to relationships are trust, respect, communication, and the like.  If these go to the wayside, the whole thing is going to crumble.

That said, it really is a matter of personal limit.  Some people can withstand and mend these areas when they are shaken and even shattered.  Others simply can't or won't.  It is within a person's disposition mostly.  If things can never be the same or better after such an event, then it is best to escape the rubble.  If one has that ability to bring things back to that baseline and build again, then it may not be time to part.  Everyone has different tolerences.  There will ALWAYS be a limit though.  My partner falls in line with the OP very much so.  I do as well in certain relationships.  I'm no good at giving up, but there comes a time when it doesn't matter whether I keep on hurting myself trying to keep a dead relationship on life support.  It is over except for the shell of appearances.  Then it is time and I have to let go.  Without those basic and vital things I mentioned before the relationship is not worth saving anymore.

lovingpet

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 8:27:54 AM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Here's my original quote you're referring to:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
Since so many Masters, especially here in the forums, have "one strike and you're out" dynamics, I assumed that I would not have been compatible with any of them. Even if our kinks were a good match, we had chemistry, they were intelligent and interesting, and so forth, as soon as I discovered that someone had that rule, I knew they were not an option. If I'm submissive toward someone, I try my level best to do what they want and be what they want. Having that threat hanging over my head would make me constantly fearful of messing up. I know I'm not perfect. My Master doesn't take that approach, but feels that a pattern of disobedience might indeed indicate incompatibility, or a major problem, or just that I'm not submissive to him. I have no problem with that, and agree with him.


Unique, if I were *consistently* or repeatedly disobedient, then something would be seriously wrong. I wouldn't be in a M/s relationship with him in the first place if I didn't want to obey him, so doing that would generally indicate that the dynamic was broken. If I were struggling with one specific thing, I would bring that to him, and we'd brainstorm on ways to help me through it. I can't imagine just throwing a hissy fit or doing so disrespectfully - that really isn't my style. If I truly couldn't do one particular thing he expected or wanted of me, we'd sort out some baby steps, or he might decide that particular thing isn't all that important to him, or he might indeed decide that it is a dealbreaker - impossible to know without specifics. To me, there is a huge difference between a repeated pattern and a one-time mistake, in that area.


i agree, and the difference is that you are owning your behavior - just like the "internal locus of control" Shyla mentions above. And in owning your behavior, you are actively seeking a solution. This is why i mention "repeatedly breaks trust and willfully disobeys" in my post.

There is so much grey area here in the "one strike and you're out" - especially in the area of breaking trust. Did the slave go out and have sex with someone else without her Master's knowledge? Or is it that she just stamped her foot in a hormonal overload one morning and said, "get your own freaking tea!" i see one as more forgiveable than the other. In the first example i would absolutely say that's a "one strike and out" situation - but the second? i'm not so sure. There would definitely be consequences though.

i have often said that trust takes a long, long time to build - and can be shattered in a moment. But the degrees of "shattering" and what has happened....again those are individual relationship dynamics, and i can't begin to generalize everyone's relationship here - nor will i attempt to do so.

My only point is that the slave is just as responsible for her actions as the Owner/Master is, and that if she is behaving in a way that violates his individual standards of trust and obedience, there is nothing wrong with him releasing her, summarily, and with absolute decision. Whether that is "one strike and she's out" is up to the Owner/Master - i can't define that for him.

< Message edited by UniqueRaven -- 3/23/2010 8:30:00 AM >

_____________________________

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My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

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RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 8:32:01 AM   
Shyla


Posts: 19
Joined: 5/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

Humans being who they are do make mistakes and aren't perfect. The concept i have a tough time understanding is knowing this; then any mistake I make will end the relationship right then and there. The problem I see over the " One strike and your out" is it fails to take into consideration compassion, understanding and forgiveness. If I have totally missed the point then someone just take a shotgun and just shoot me.


Herro there,

I don't think we are talking about mistakes here.  It is not a mistake to scream repeatedly at one's M-type that you absolutely will not do something.  One has to consciously choose to dig in one's heels and be absolutely stubborn about something even AFTER their owner/controller has attempted to discern the reason for said stubbornness and offer opportunities for their property to either present the issue as a problem they need help with or to relent and comply.

I can make mistakes and do things wrong, sure, and my Daddy will correct them.  I can be scared witless (I get that way) and paralyzed with fear so that I cannot physically or mentally comply with what he wants, and he will (and has) unfrozen me so that I could then comply.  But an outright no, or continuing to do something that he has asked me not to and that we have discussed would be like taking a jackhammer to the foundation of our relationship. 

So.. no.. I don't think the "one strike and your out" rule in any way lacks compassion.  It does however make the s-type responsible for his or her own actions.  They cannot 'blame' the one who dominates them for their own behavior, and they cannot say they did not know the consequences of their actions going in to the relationship or situation.

I have been known, in the past, to completely de-rail in the middle of a disagreement and simply ask "May I continue to disagree with you on this or are we approaching the line where non-compliance becomes more of an issue than this issue?".  It's all about priorities in the end, yes?  My main priority is to keep my place with him, because he is the safest place i can be.  Everything else comes second to that, including whether or not I want to carry out a specific action.  If non-compliance suddenly threatens my place at his feet it's my responsibility to remove the threat - by obeying.  Mistakes are not non-compliance.

_____________________________

T minus 3 weeks and counting until I am home at his feet.

(in reply to Wolf2Bear)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 8:38:40 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		Unique, I didn't willfully disobey in the 3 years I was with my previous Dominant, or in the roughly a year I've been with my Master. Heck, I don't throw temper tantrums even in egalitarian kinky relationships. In the areas my Master knew were likely to be a struggle, he didn't set me up to fail by making it an order, until we'd already done whatever it was a couple of times and he felt I was ready for that. Instead, he let me know it was something he wanted of me, and I wanted to please him by working toward it as best as I possibly could, while he praised the baby steps I made at first. Now that we've worked through those difficulties, he often orders me to do them, and even when there is still a slight internal struggle, I *KNOW* I can do them, and I feel confident, and that he is proud of me. I agree that one of the reasons for my concerns about the "one strike and you're out" is the kind of hormonal situation you describe - that's the only situation in which I can envision it happening, or else him deliberately pushing a limit in a way that I completely wasn't ready for, far too harshly. The whole "one strike and you're out" philosophy/phrasing comes across to me as him planning his exit strategy, looking for any excuse to break up, not being willing to give me the benefit of the doubt.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 3/23/2010 8:42:46 AM >

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 9:17:12 AM   
ishyB


Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

"When you trust enough in Me, in My approach and in My duty of care, THEN you submit. Once you submit, you are Mine in mind, body and soul. If you ever loose that trust, the one and only choise that remains entirely yours is to walk away.... but it is a one way door"


A "one-strike-and-you're-out" rule wouldn't work very well for me in any type of M/s relationship, because I never start off the relationship by promising my obedience to the M-type.
I don't owe him my submission, I've never vowed to obey him in all things, and I most defiantly would never promise him that I will never tell him "no".
Instead, it is rather by trust and by the power of his will that he guides and compels me to submit to him. Not as a promise made to him, but as a natural reaction to the type of man that he is.

As such, my submission is never a matter of honor to me. I don't break my word by not obeying; instead, my obedience is just my most normal reaction in my interactions with him.

This leads to the fact that in the occasions that I get upset, or angry, or doubtful of him, I might sometimes "freeze up" and be resistant or fearful to do as he says. This rarely happens, but it has happened before, and it will most likely happen again.
His reaction to this isn't to show me the door, but rather, to find out where this reaction in coming from, fix the problem, and guide me trough it.
The end result is always the same: I end up doing what he wanted me to do anyways, this time, with fear or resistance.

The reason he does this is because he recognizes the fact that trusting him is a learning process.
He can't expect my undoubting trust from a certain specific point in time, and expect me to never doubt him ever again after that point. Instead, he takes those moments where I do doubt him as a learning process by which he can increase my overall trust in him by guiding me through what I was once so fearful of resistant of doing.

Now, if I would ever completely lose my faith in him, and absolutely, unbendingly, consistently refuse to do as he says, with him being unable to guide me through that process, then yes, he would show me the door. But he would never take one "I don't want to do that" from me, so seriously that he would assume that I didn't trust him anymore and kick me out for that.
Hell, if that was the case, I would have lost my collar at least half a dozen times already, while now, not only am I still his, he also ended up getting his way on every single time I told him “no”.

I wish you well,

ishy


_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 9:18:38 AM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		OP

Some things really are non negotiable however.

I have one very hard limit this way-cheat on me and you are gone-period.

_____________________________

I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

(in reply to Andalusite)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: One strike and out - 3/23/2010 9:21:47 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		While I am not of a master/slave mindset I do agree with your post. As a sub the idea of willful disobedience is horrifying. If any of my former mates would have asked I would have complied, unless I absolutely could not. My X for instance, knowing how much of a law and order sort of person I am, would sometimes tease me by handing me something small in a store and saying "put it in your bag", just to get that reaction of terror in my eyes. He knew I could never steal, I knew that he would never expect me to, even though for that one small moment I had fear I would have to say no. But, I knew him well. He knew me. I trusted that no matter what he had my best interests at heart.

When we see posts here where you might see people jumping on the "dump him" bandwagon, it is usually because the individuals are new to each other. I see people saying they are in love, though it has only been 6 months and 3 of those were bad. Or people who have reached the end of a relationship but don't want to see it. Sadly that happens too often.

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 20
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