RE: Mandated insurance, vehicle, home, etc - 3/30/2010 1:24:52 PM
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Termyn8or
Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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It's not quite that simple Hunky. Knowledge is power. They know and what they do tend to keep their knowledge. For example when I was young we got our SS cards before we went to work. I got stopped driving before I even had a SS number and guess what happened. Absolutely nothing. I had never signed any contract with them and today I wish I hadn't. Alot less to undo.
You actually can opt out of SS, but that does nothing to make you a non-taxpayer. Even though both are collected by the same entity it is two completely separate issues. Some actually file as self employed, and the SS is called self employment tax, which is 15.2% I think. This is the total between what you pay and your employer matches. If you work on the books it is extremely difficult to get a company to stop taking it out and it is hell trying to get it back at the end of the year.
They've got it locked up pretty tight for most people. If you file taxes you WILL pay whatever they say. But if you don't, and use a certain type of defense you'll be out of the system after a few more short steps. This is not to imply that it is easy.
If normal people want to protest this tax for not having health insurance there are legal ways. First of all review your tax situation, modify your W4 so that you will get a very small refund. But it MUST be a refund, you CANNOT owe taxes to do this. Then you just don't file. They will bring it out that you do owe because of the uninsured tax, but that should be easy to fight. Like interest and penalties. You don't have to completely leave the system to avoid them, you can simply refuse to pay them, but only if you don't file. Whatever law they claim that compels you to pay income tax says nothing about interest or penalties. The rest is just IRS code, and that simply doesn't apply. But only if you make it not apply.
I don't recommend it at this time for most people. I have "strawmen" so to speak to hold certain of my property, I have a certain deal with work. You just don't understand how you have to do things under these conditions. The guy I know had to turn down big construction jobs because of it. Not that they were so big, but it's where they are located, to get a permit he had to sign that city taxes would be deducted and paid to that locality to get the permit. Most times he can get the customer to get a homeowner's permit, but if not he has to turn the job down flat. Most places are not like that, but some are. And that is what I mean about them getting you by contract. As it stands now they all know he does not pay taxes, and he is involved with city inspectors and engineers all the time. They know right where he is.
Signing one piece of paper could be curtains for him. He knows it, they know he knows it and he knows they know it. He is pretty much left alone after they busted him the other year and he kicked their ass in court. Even before that he has walked out of a courtroom undismissed, saying the court simply does not have jurisdiction. I didn't see any bullet holes in him, nor did he disappear. He knows the tricks, better than I in fact.
There are some who advertise similar processes on how to do this. I am going to get like Ken, and contact them and get just one case number. If they can provide that it would go a long way, if they will. The problem with proving things like this, like in the case of my buddy, they will not bother to even attempt to prosecute him, therefore there is and never will be a case number.
One thing I heard about a couple of years ago was quite interesting. A pilot made somewhere around $300,000 that year. She did not file taxes and the court accepted the defense that she really had good faith belief that she simply did not have to. It was surprising to me. Also at the end of the case the prosecutor asked the judge to at least order her to pay the taxes and the judge replied "No, I do not work for the IRS". Now that one will have a case number. I'll see if I can get it.
In spite of all which could be encouraging in this matter, I suggest if anyone tries it they already have all the bank accounts they will ever need opened and in good standing before undertaking something like this. Never screw the account up, never overdraw, never make it so you need to open another bank account. For the reason, read what you sign when you open a bank account. Don't register to vote, which is no big problem until there is something or someone to vote for. Some might find it better to incorporate, but for other reasons than most people. Normally people incorporate their businesses to hold their personal assets harmless in case of a huge liability. In this situation the corporation acts as the strawman. But now a corporation must pay taxes, but if you fix it so it never turns a profit that will be minimal. Alot less than if you made three hundred grand that year. The ideal is that at some point there is absolutely nothing "in your name".
The drawbacks and vulnerability are staggering, but under the right conditions it works. I have certain people we "keep clean" for that purpose. It seems so illogical in some ways, for example, one buddy got his license back but had no insurance. I wouldn't let him drive my car. I did back when he didn't have a license, but once he got it no more driving. He had something to lose. Insane but logical. These days I can't let anyone else drive my car. Well at least most. One has no license and parks in handicapped spots, the other is dropping every dime he has, along with some of our money to get his license back. Neither one of them need more problems. And I don't need the hassle of getting my car out of impound, which took four days last time. Totally insane, but logical.
But it's been said that insanity is a proper response to an insane environment, and we are here.
So no, sending the SS card back does not accomplish much.
T
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