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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 5:57:16 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: masterofholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alphascendant


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


idiot


Heeey...thanks Alphascent. I didn't know Tazzy called you that, but I do agree it is worth repeating.



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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 6:00:39 AM   
Alphascendant


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Is that link the best you could come up with for the spelling of "Hippocrates?"

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 6:04:13 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alphascendant

Is that link the best you could come up with for the spelling of "Hippocrates?"
Doesn't matter. The link is there, as are others...proving you wrong.




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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 6:06:05 AM   
Alphascendant


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I am not so convinced that it does, and where are those other links?

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 6:07:38 AM   
Alphascendant


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I found some. But when you go to the links, they spell it "Hippocrates." The spellings "Hypocrates" appear to be taken from quotes of people, obviously, who didn't know how to spell either.

< Message edited by Alphascendant -- 3/28/2010 6:12:27 AM >

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 6:11:15 AM   
masterofholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alphascendant

I am not so convinced that it does, and where are those other links?
My wife posted a link that proved you wrong. Since one link was all it took to do so, she will not be posting any of the others that exist.

Now, because of the disrespect you showed to Holly and Tazzy, resorting to name calling to cover your ass, Holly is out of here.





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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 6:13:01 AM   
Alphascendant


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That link didn't prove anything. Oddly enough, "Hypocrates" isn't in the dictionary either.

< Message edited by Alphascendant -- 3/28/2010 6:17:34 AM >

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 6:17:32 AM   
masterofholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alphascendant

Is that link the best you could come up with for the spelling of "Hippocrates?"
Doesn't matter. The link is there, as are others...proving you wrong.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Alphascendant

I am not so convinced that it does


YOU may not be convinced, but you certainly look like an asshole to the rest of us.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 6:20:15 AM   
Alphascendant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

resorting to name calling when proven wrong is a true sign of a weak character.





To the rest of whom, those that don't know how to spell?


< Message edited by Alphascendant -- 3/28/2010 6:27:40 AM >

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 7:01:10 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And all without "standing in the way of the basic functioning of government."

The Administration changed the definition of a "functioning government".

The separation of powers, the manner in which a Bill becomes law was how a government functioned until now.

Appointment required approval, with VERY exceptional exceptions - until now. Most interesting about these "recess appointments" there is no fundamental change in Congress regarding the majority party. However obviously they now have fear and are cowards to be on record supporting these appointments and this Administration. Instead they accept and rationalize that this is now a "functioning government". The rationalization flying in the face of the promised "transparency", not to mention "inclusion" or even a basic promise of reviewing any legislation 5 days before signature. The last idea which may have saved the Administration and Congress a bit of embarrassment regarding the pre-existing condition language as it affects the under 26 years old 'adolescents'.

This isn't the way the Constitution defined "functional government" but, MM, you are right to point out this is how this Administration defines it.

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 9:18:58 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alphascendant

I found some. But when you go to the links, they spell it "Hippocrates." The spellings "Hypocrates" appear to be taken from quotes of people, obviously, who didn't know how to spell either.


Well, if you really want to be accurate, it's Ιπποκράτης.

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 9:22:52 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

I guess they forgot to add "for a fee" on that.

And , of course, the liberals of the day must have rewrote this part;
"I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy"


You actually expect doctors to work for free? Why, then, they go through the expense of medical school?

Your last point is ill-informed, as conservatives, not liberals, oppose practicing abortion.

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 9:35:50 AM   
pahunkboy


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if the whole forum morphs into this thread- we are doomed.

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 9:40:13 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alphascendant


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


idiot




First, its very dommly to take a word and post it as he complete comment. What was said is this...

quote:

Who is the bigger idiot? the one who cannot spell it correctly, or the one who runs his mouth about what it contains before actually reading it?


I did not argue the fact that i misspelled it. and you want to consider me a cunt? go for it. better people have called me much worse... and got me to laugh!

quote:

The Hippocratic Oath Today: Meaningless Relic or Invaluable Moral Guide?
The Hippocratic Oath is one of the oldest binding documents in history. Written in antiquity, its principles are held sacred by doctors to this day: treat the sick to the best of one's ability, preserve patient privacy, teach the secrets of medicine to the next generation, and so on. "The Oath of Hippocrates," holds the American Medical Association's Code of Medical Ethics (1996 edition), "has remained in Western civilization as an expression of ideal conduct for the physician." Today, most graduating medical-school students swear to some form of the oath, usually a modernized version. Indeed, oath-taking in recent decades has risen to near uniformity, with just 24 percent of U.S. medical schools administering the oath in 1928 to nearly 100 percent today.

Yet paradoxically, even as the modern oath's use has burgeoned, its content has tacked away from the classical oath's basic tenets. According to a 1993* survey of 150 U.S. and Canadian medical schools, for example, only 14 percent of modern oaths prohibit euthanasia, 11 percent hold convenant with a deity, 8 percent foreswear abortion, and a mere 3 percent forbid sexual contact with patients—all maxims held sacred in the classical version. The original calls for free tuition for medical students and for doctors never to "use the knife" (that is, conduct surgical procedures)—both obviously out of step with modern-day practice. Perhaps most telling, while the classical oath calls for "the opposite" of pleasure and fame for those who transgress the oath, fewer than half of oaths taken today insist the taker be held accountable for keeping the pledge.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath.html

quote:

The AMA has been kind enough to do some in-house research to determine if the Modern Oath on this site had somehow originated from the AMA. It had not. The AMA has a code of ethics, but there is, in fact, no version of the Hippocratic Oath that the AMA espouses or promotes. This is the information we have received from the AMA's Ethics Division.

Our own research on the Hippocratic Oath, inspired by the discovery that our posting of the Modern Oath did not originate from the AMA, has been most interesting. While it is common knowledge among both doctors and the lay public that doctors take an oath that says, "Never do harm," the fact is that not all medical schools require their graduating doctors take the Hippocratic Oath. In addition, Medicine's use of the Oath changes over time. Here are some items for your consideration, the results of a study by Robert Orr, M.D. and Norman Pang, M.D., in which 157 deans of allopathic and osteopathic schools of medicine in Canada and the United States were surveyed regarding the use of the Hippocratic Oath:

1. In 1993, 98% of schools administered some form of the Oath.

2. In 1928, only 26% of schools administered some form of the Oath.

3. Only 1 school used the original Hippocratic Oath.

4. 68 schools used versions of the original Hippocratic Oath.

5. 100% of current Oaths pledge a commitment to patients.

6. Only 43% vow to be accountable for their actions.

7. 14% include a prohibition against euthanasia.

8. Only 11% invoke a diety.

9. 8% prohibit abortion.

10. Only 3% prohibit sexual contact with patients.

From - "The Use of the Hippocratic Oath: A Review of 20th Century Practice and a Content Analysis of Oaths Administered in Medical Schools in the U.S. and Canada in 1993." by Robert D. Orr, M.D. and Norman Pang, M.D.


http://www.imagerynet.com/hippo.ama.html

quote:

Is it a Vanishing Oath?
The Hippocratic Oath (OrkoV) is the most widely known of Greek medical texts. It requires a new physician to swear that he/she will uphold a number of professional ethical standards. One of the best known prohibitions is, "to do no harm" (epi dhlhsei de kai adikihi eirxein or in Latin, primum non nocere). Little is known about who wrote it or first used it, but it appears to be more strongly influenced by followers of Pythagoras than Hippocrates and is often estimated to have been written in the 4th century BC.

Hippocratic Oath

I swear by Apollo the physician, and Asclepius, and Hygieia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses as my witnesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this contract:

To hold him who taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents, to be a partner in life with him, and to fulfill his needs when required; to look upon his offspring as equals to my own siblings, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or contract; and that by the set rules, lectures, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to students bound by this contract and having sworn this Oath to the law of medicine, but to no others.

I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgment, and I will do no harm or injustice to them.

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

In purity and according to divine law will I carry out my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, even upon those suffering from stones, but I will leave this to those who are trained in this craft.

Into whatever homes I go, I will enter them for the benefit of the sick, avoiding any voluntary act of impropriety or corruption, including the seduction of women or men, whether they are free men or slaves.

Whatever I see or hear in the lives of my patients, whether in connection with my professional practice or not, which ought not to be spoken of outside, I will keep secret, as considering all such things to be private.

So long as I maintain this Oath faithfully and without corruption, may it be granted to me to partake of life fully and the practice of my art, gaining the respect of all men for all time. However, should I transgress this Oath and violate it, may the opposite be my fate.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2771764/the_hippocratic_oath_pg3.html?cat=5

The original Oath...

quote:

THE HIPPOCRATIC OATH (full text)

Traditional text

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfil this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.

Translation from the Greek by Ludwig Edelstein. From The Hippocratic Oath: Text, Translation, and Interpretation, by Ludwig Edelstein. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press, 1943. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_classical.html



http://www.acim-asia.com/The_Hippocratic_Oath.htm

and, finally, what others consider the Modern Version of this oath...

quote:

The Hippocratic Oath: Modern Version
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_modern.html

I mispelled a word. You, my dear.... well, the post contains a world full of imformation. I leave you to your readings.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 3/28/2010 9:50:11 AM >


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If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 9:48:15 AM   
tazzygirl


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....

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 9:15:39 PM   
Silence8


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

30,000,000,000 are gonna drop in to say hi.


People who have insurance now don't do this. Why would newly insured people do this?


Actually what worries me more about the possibility of increased lines, is the number of doctors who are leaving the profession already. (I personally know of 3: One is a friend who can't afford to practice anymore, and another friend received letters from his oncologist and primary care physician informing their patients they were shutting down.)


I'm calling 'BS' on this one.

There's probably more doctors going the other direction -- retiring early to avoid dealing with insurance companies.

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/28/2010 9:16:51 PM   
Musicmystery


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Plus, if this were the reason, they'd have five years yet.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 3:31:18 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

30,000,000,000 are gonna drop in to say hi.


People who have insurance now don't do this. Why would newly insured people do this?


Actually what worries me more about the possibility of increased lines, is the number of doctors who are leaving the profession already. (I personally know of 3: One is a friend who can't afford to practice anymore, and another friend received letters from his oncologist and primary care physician informing their patients they were shutting down.)


I'm calling 'BS' on this one.

There's probably more doctors going the other direction -- retiring early to avoid dealing with insurance companies.


Call it what you want, I know for a fact it's happened.

The one who can't afford to practice anymore isn't a direct result of this bill, it's due to some other medicare cuts. She's in the physical therapy side of things, diagnosing problems and often referring patients to specialists, so her field isn't of the type to be able to rapid fire appointments.

For the other 2, I just know the guy who got the letters from his oncologist and PCP so don't have more detail there.

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 3:39:27 PM   
Musicmystery


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In other words...he's correct to call BS on this.

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 4:34:53 PM   
xBullx


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Pardon the interruption, but Is this statement with regard to the entire website from this point foreward?


quote:

ORIGINAL: masterofholly

Now, because of the disrespect you showed to Holly and Tazzy, resorting to name calling to cover your ass, Holly is out of here.





< Message edited by xBullx -- 3/29/2010 4:42:15 PM >


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I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

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