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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 5:35:56 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alphascendant

And what about that promise of any bill being on his desk for five days before he signed it? Such a class act.


Nunes says Republicans were blindsided by the provision because they were unable to see the final bill until the very end.

How did this happen? 

They were unable to see a bill they were going to vote on?

Did the Democrats hide it somewhere and then just brought it out at "the very end"?

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 5:36:00 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

My worry is that there is a possibility that they could be the start of a coming trend. 


If three doctors, quitting now over unsuccessful practices, before anything in this bill has even started, could be the start of a coming trend for you, then in your world, nothing would rise to sweeping claim.

If it's not apparent to you that this is bizarrely slim basis for that, rational discourse just isn't going to happen for you.

(in reply to Raiikun)
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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 5:38:29 PM   
luckydawg


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Status: offline 		"And claiming we need to worry about increased lines because three doctors you know are leaving over a policy that doesn't take place for another five years is damn ridiculous."

Ahh, I see you are back to your usuall dishonesty MM....



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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 5:40:01 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		OK then, for you too....

If three doctors, quitting now over unsuccessful practices, before anything in this bill has even started, could be the start of a coming trend for you, then in your world, nothing would rise to sweeping claim.

If it's not apparent to you that this is bizarrely slim basis for that, rational discourse just isn't going to happen for you.

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 5:51:51 PM   
luckydawg


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Status: offline 		Now MM before your trollish little pinhead explodes, lets look at raikuns post again.


What he said was

"Actually what worries me more about the possibility of increased lines, is the number of doctors who are leaving the profession already. (I personally know of 3: One is a friend who can't afford to practice anymore, and another friend received letters from his oncologist and primary care physician informing their patients they were shutting down.) "

Notice he said "number of doctors who are leaving the profession already". You pretending that he said they were leaving because of Obamas bill is either stupidity or dishonety on your part.

and he said that increasing the number of patients (which is the goal of Health Reform right), would exacerbate the already existing problem.

Which everyone who is paying attention knows is happening already.

Here is a link to a CNN poll for the folks like you who are willfully ignorant.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/11/17/primary.care.doctors.study/

"(CNN) -- Nearly half the respondents in a survey of U.S. primary care physicians said that they would seriously consider getting out of the medical business within the next three years if they had an alternative.

The survey, released this week by the Physicians' Foundation, which promotes better doctor-patient relationships, sought to find the reasons for an identified exodus among family doctors and internists, widely known as the backbone of the health industry.

A U.S. shortage of 35,000 to 40,000 primary care physicians by 2025 was predicted at last week's American Medical Association annual meeting."



A shortage which will be made worse by increasing the number of patients, which is the goal of Health Reform, right?

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 5:53:46 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Okay, reposted just for MM's understanding (since apparently anything less than being this specific is a "sweeping claim" in his world.")

Actually what worries me more about the possibility of increased lines, is the number of doctors (I know of 3) who are leaving the profession already (since I know of 3).  One is a friend who can't afford to practice anymore


Why can't he afford to practice anymore?

There are no health care reforms in effect yet.

Sounds like he is either not a very good doctor or not very good at running a business.

quote:

...,and another friend received letters from his oncologist and primary care physician informing their patients they were shutting down.  This totals up to 3.


And why were they shutting down?

Were they retiring?  Selling their practices? 

You are drawing a conclusion you expect everyone to accept while providing no details.


(in reply to Raiikun)
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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 5:55:36 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Notice he said "number of doctors who are leaving the profession already". You pretending that he said they were leaving because of Obamas bill is either stupidity or dishonety on your part.


Really. So no connect exists for him, he just decided to share and picked this thread? And in response to a poster who raised the prospect of 30 million new people showing up for health care?

That's an incredible coincidence.

Why did he quote that post, then, I wonder? He even took me to task for not quoting it.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/29/2010 5:57:05 PM >

(in reply to luckydawg)
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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 5:56:57 PM   
luckydawg


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Status: offline 		The looming shortage of Primary Care Physicians is well known, and has been talked about for almost a decade.

Stop screaming snarky questions, and do some research for once RML.




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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 5:59:01 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

The looming shortage of Primary Care Physicians is well known, and has been talked about for almost a decade.

AND that's a different issue than the one numbnuts raised--especially since he's talking about an oncologist, and we're well stocked in specialists.

Now, if we redirect resources from specialists to primary care physicians, then yes, I can see specialists opting to retire.


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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 5:59:31 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		We pretty much are at the whims are the British Empire and the City of London.

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 5:59:41 PM   
luckydawg


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Status: offline 		Ok so it is stupidity on your Part MM. One more time. The approaching shortage of doctors (which existed before HCR) will be made worse by bringing in 30,000,000 more patients (which is the goal of HCR).









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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 6:00:55 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		AND I just agreed with you, O Arbitrator of Stupidity.

Read first, then snark.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 6:05:42 PM   
luckydawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

The looming shortage of Primary Care Physicians is well known, and has been talked about for almost a decade.

AND that's a different issue than the one numbnuts raised--especially since he's talking about an oncologist, and we're well stocked in specialists.

Now, if we redirect resources from specialists to primary care physicians, then yes, I can see specialists opting to retire.





Nope it is exacty the issue Raiikun raised.

And I guess I understand why you lie like you do. Brain and RML believe you.

Raikun specifically refered to the 3 doctors he knows. One is a specialist. One is a Primary Care, adn the third is not identified.

you caliming he is talking about an oncologist...is simply a lie. shit spewed from the mouth of a troll.


you demanded evidence of the upcoming shortage of doctors the 'sweeping Claim", which was absolutly true and well known. I gave it to you.

Why no acknowledgement....other than the obvious "MM is a troll", reason?

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 6:09:22 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
quote:

you caliming he is talking about an oncologist...is simply a lie.

What he said was

"Actually what worries me more about the possibility of increased lines, is the number of doctors who are leaving the profession already. (I personally know of 3: One is a friend who can't afford to practice anymore, and another friend received letters from his oncologist and primary care physician informing their patients they were shutting down.) "


You even quoted it.

Read before you snark.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/29/2010 6:12:03 PM >

(in reply to luckydawg)
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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 6:12:54 PM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		he refers to 3 people, only one of whom is an oncologist(specialist)......You can troll and insult as much as you like. It is the truth and there for everyone to read.

don't worry brain still thinks your a genius.....


"AND that's a different issue than the one numbnuts raised--especially since he's talking about an oncologist, and we're well stocked in specialists. "


And again, he refered to 3 doctors, only one of whom is an oncologist.

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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 6:14:01 PM   
luckydawg


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Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		I guess trolls have a hard time counting to 3.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 6:15:20 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

In other words...he's correct to call BS on this.


Tell that to a very good friend of mine who is hopefully meeting with his new oncologist tomorrow morning.


You really, really, need to read this thread.

Then you'll have some clue, perhaps, what you're talking about.

Snark works better when it's actually on topic.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 6:25:07 PM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		I guess some folks are not smart enough to follow the thread. You are shifting now from his claim to him attempting to back up a part of it. Raiikun is talking about 3 doctors...only one of whom is identified as a specialist.


But that is really meaningless. As evidence of the 'Sweeping Claim" has been provided.

and as expected, you refuse to acknowledge that the evidence was given. you don't negate it. You simply pretend it doesn't exist and start calling people numbnuts.....


Trying to pretend that part of his explanation is his claim is just more troll.

Don't worry Rml and Brain bought it....

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I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 6:39:53 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		If your attitude ever stopped climbing up your ass, we could have a conversation, instead of your stock performance.

The kid indeed tied the claim to three doctors in a discussion linking this to the health care bill. If that's good enough for you, that explains quite a lot about your positions.

You changed the topic to the shortage of primary care physicians, noting correctly this is an ongoing problem, existing long before the health care bill. I agreed with you---yet here you are dancing around talking about ignoring evidence.

It's a separate issue. If we repeal the bill this evening, the problem will still be exacerbated, because economic incentive heavily influences doctors to follow specialties--even doctors who might prefer primary care, as medical school is a costly proposition. There is, and will be, a worsening shortage of primary care physicians. Period.

The question now, if you'd like to have a conversation, is how to do that. Probably this means intervention with who gets paid what, and understandably, specialists are not going to like it, since we can't afford to simply throw lots of cash at primary care physicians so that their income equals that of specialists. And conservatives aren't going to like the intervention. But the market isn't going to correct that on its own--or if it is, I'd be sincerely interested in the argument explaining how.

But the shortage is not due to the increase in insured, as was implied. I'm not even convinced it's all that much--less than a 10% increase, or a 44 hour week vs. a 40 hour week (hypothetically--doctors of course work much longer and in some cases much less). Or, instead of seeing my doctor once a year for a checkup, I see him once every 13 months. I'm fine with that.

Perhaps it would make sense to pay school costs for doctors agreeing to go into primary care. That's going to cost us too. I doubt conservatives would go along with it.






< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/29/2010 6:43:01 PM >

(in reply to luckydawg)
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RE: Basic Functioning of Government - 3/29/2010 7:20:51 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		I had this happen with an excellent neurologist, but it wasn't economic.  She just took on a teaching job and a job at the VA (both were part time.)
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

In other words...he's correct to call BS on this.


Tell that to a very good friend of mine who is hopefully meeting with his new oncologist tomorrow morning.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 100
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