RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 11:02:22 AM)

I'm just wondering if the difference in capability to wage such an air offensive for an extended period of time might just be the actual explanation for the disparity in tonnage......yanno rather than any "moral superiority" of the respected warring powers ?
Just asking.

There was no moral superiority implied. 
A quick read of Churchill's work on WW II would give you a pretty good grasp of the pragmatic sanctions at play.




slvemike4u -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 11:05:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I'm just wondering if the difference in capability to wage such an air offensive for an extended period of time might just be the actual explanation for the disparity in tonnage......yanno rather than any "moral superiority" of the respected warring powers ?
Just asking.

There was no moral superiority implied. 
A quick read of Churchill's work on WW II would give you a pretty good grasp of the pragmatic sanctions at play.

I've read Churchill's work(a long,long time ago)as I've explained once to you...I need no help from one as confused as you on what to and not to read.
Thanks all the same.




slvemike4u -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 11:09:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Also Hitler carpet bombed the living hell out of Britain. Suggesting we emulate this tactic?

Actually just the opposite is true.
You might want to look up the total tonnage of bombs dropped by the Germans on Britian vs. tonnage of the allies on Germany.  "Bomber Harris is the poster child for "carpet bombing".

And I do beg to differ with you...this post,crafted as it was...and with that little shot at Bomber Harris does indeed suggest a "moral superiority"...at the least it implies a lack of morals on the part of the Allies.
And is consistant with your oft stated views on the subject,please don't play word games with me...you are woefully unprepared and ill-armed.




thompsonx -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 11:32:54 AM)

I've read Churchill's work(a long,long time ago)as I've explained once to you...I need no help from one as confused as you on what to and not to read.
Thanks all the same. 

You obviously do not remember much of what you read.




thompsonx -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 11:41:41 AM)

And I do beg to differ with you...this post,crafted as it was...and with that little shot at Bomber Harris does indeed suggest a "moral superiority"...at the least it implies a lack of morals on the part of the Allies.
And is consistant with your oft stated views on the subject,please don't play word games with me...you are woefully unprepared and ill-armed.

I pointed out that "Bomber Harris" was the poster child for "carpet bombing" because it was he who brought it to the level of efficiency that it obtained.  I made no judgement as to the moral efficacy of its use.
Do you find anything wrong with bombing women and children and other non combatants? 




slvemike4u -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 12:21:49 PM)

I find nothing wrong with destroying the enemies means of production.It is called total war and in some ways is more civilised than allowing conflicts to go on and on.
War is a bitch...total war,it would follow...is a total bitch.
Having said that ,let me add that in no way shape or form am I going to allow you to drag me into another of your pointless little debates where WWII is concerned.Your views are ,quite frankly off the rails(as I suspect you are too)and all it leads to is going round and round with you.....I have better things to do.




jlf1961 -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 12:41:57 PM)

CNN is broadcasting the clip at 2:41cst.




Thadius -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 12:44:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

CNN is broadcasting the clip at 2:41cst.

The question I have is, To what end?

What is the intent of broadcasting this video?




Aneirin -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 1:19:10 PM)

I wondered at that also, as I do when any other war misdoings seem to hit the headlines to receive condemnation from all quarters and then fade away into nothing awaiting the next revealation about the gritty truth of the wars we all seem to support in one way or another.

I did think someone has an agenda, as agenda to expose the western forces, Britain and especially America as not the fair minded people the world thinks they are, as what is leaked does not put either country's armed forces in any good light. This of course has a double effect, for;

a) It creates even more resentment, hate and there action against the western invader, maybe even prolonging the conflict and even creating others.

b) Has the effect to turn the armed forces countrymen against them, basically, eat at the war policy from inside by attacking the ones actually doing the bloody job.

Is this going to stop those who create wars, nope, I don't think so, wars will continue ad finitum, unless for some miraculous reason we actually realise those that create the wars, are the enemy, not those who would be the opposing side, ( I am thinking of those with a vested interest here, the corporations with interested parties in both military and politics).

But of war, it is literal hell, hell on earth for those that have to fight and kill each other, anything and everything assaults the mind, people otherwise totally balanced and healthy can be hurt deep down, every emotion rudely assaulted and abused, they can change, from the best person one can know to something different as a result of what they have seen and had to do.

If they can't take it, they shouldn't have enlisted, except there is nothing with a likeness to the actuality of war, there is no training that will prepare except theories and ideas, but then theories and ideas are not reality.

One particular damaged soul I know will no longer eat meat, even a butcher's shop is avoided, as even the sanitised smell is enough to bring tears. Barbeques in the summer, forget it, and when the sewerage farm wind is blowing the wrong way, he is off in deep and quiet thought. This is a garrison town, there are many like that with memories they wish to avoid.

Perhaps what it will take, is some of the soldiers on these forums to reveal the nitty gritty, the actuality of  killing for one's country for people to understand the reality beyond what the politicians say.

And then we as voters may decide.




Thadius -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 1:35:55 PM)

There is no way to put into words or even paint a picture of what "the nitty gritty, the actuality of killing for one's country" is. Even if I attempted to put my feelings, thoughts, and memories into words it would not paint the same picture of others that I served with, as each of us viewed things from our own perspective. Assuming that I could express it, it still would not do any good without, as you mention, the smells, sounds, and other sensory stimulus that was occurring at the time of the incidents. That may even be the reason that so many of our (collective all nations) veterans and warriors have very little progress with therapy, it is just impossible to describe to somebody, much less somebody that has never experienced anything close to it.

My father used to say "War sucks, but it is a necessary evil. We take part in it, spilling our blood and gaining scars both mentally and physically that may never heal, in hopes that those that come after us never need to feel that pain or suffering. Son, pray that the world will someday know a generation or 2 that has never seen war."

I continue to pray.




Politesub53 -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 1:43:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The nazis didnt "carpet bomb" Britain in any sense that we might understand. They launched concentrated air raids on key targets - factories, dockyards and so on. And even then, if you compare the bomb load of the Heinkel and Junkers aircraft used by the nazis with that of allied aircraft, you will see that it wasnt simply numbers of aircraft that made the difference between 1940-41 over Britain and 1943-45 over Germany.

Its a "funny old story" all in all, starting with the Parliament of the UK (Conservative) seeing real ethical problems with bombing German factories and facilities since they were private property, would you believe it?



Interesting that you dont see mass bombing raids on London as carpet bombing.

I am also unsure why you think the coalition government during the war was Conservative ?




thompsonx -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 2:37:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I said:
Do you find anything wrong with bombing women and children and other non combatants? 
You said:

I find nothing wrong with destroying the enemies means of production.
But you did not answer the question



It is called total war and in some ways is more civilised than allowing conflicts to go on and on.
War is a bitch...total war,it would follow...is a total bitch.
Having said that ,let me add that in no way shape or form am I going to allow you to drag me into another of your pointless little debates where WWII is concerned.

It would make sense for you not to engage in discussing things of which you have no knowledge.


Your views are ,quite frankly off the rails(as I suspect you are too)and all it leads to is going round and round with you.....I have better things to do.

You may feel that my views are off the rails but so far you have not been able to refute any of  them.




subfever -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 2:39:53 PM)

quote:

Is this going to stop those who create wars, nope, I don't think so, wars will continue ad finitum, unless for some miraculous reason we actually realise those that create the wars, are the enemy, not those who would be the opposing side, ( I am thinking of those with a vested interest here, the corporations with interested parties in both military and politics).


To end all war, the collective consciousness of the masses needs to be raised. It's a tall order, but we need to start somewhere.




thompsonx -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 2:43:11 PM)

Interesting that you dont see mass bombing raids on London as carpet bombing.

I am also unsure why you think the coalition government during the war was Conservative ?

Define carpet bombing.
I do not deny that the blitz occured or that civilians were targeted.
My point was that it was started by the Britts and carried to its logical fruition under the direction of "Bomber Harris".

If I remember correctly Churchill was a conservative who was called upon to form a government after Chamberlin stepped down.
He was also voted out within days of the defeat of Germany.




Jeffff -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 2:45:57 PM)

I believe the folks from Dresden could define carpet bombing for you




mnottertail -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 2:47:46 PM)

How about those in the carpet mills of Owings Mills MD?


KingCongoleum




thompsonx -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 2:48:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I believe the folks from Dresden could define carpet bombing for you


As could the people of Tokyo.
Did anything even remotely resembling Tokyo or Dresden happen in Brittian?




thompsonx -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 2:49:56 PM)

OK what is with the ice cream cone[8|]?




Thadius -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 2:51:47 PM)

Are you going to soon argue that Hiroshima and Nagisaki were good reasons for the attack on Hawaii?




mnottertail -> RE: Suprised no one posted the new video of our military murdering Iraqis. Here it is. (4/6/2010 2:51:55 PM)

I'm a virgin now, Huntie!

Ron




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