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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 9:41:27 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline 		Yes, your recalling the good old days of the free for all between you and Synergy.  Both of you were often foolish, inappropriate and just plain vile. 

What does that have to do with the rest of us?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 9:44:22 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Its just amusing to see the new tide of "respect the office" mantra coming in. Two or three years ago it was literally anything goes.

But now?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


"Change" is here. Time to respect the office...



Show me one post i have made where i didnt respect the office, Sanity. I have never made fun of his name, never posted pics that were in bad taste, or supported anyone who did.

Your just pissy because no one is supporting that picture leaving you little to whine about.



And i have in more than one post reminded people to respect the office if not the holder. I didnt like alot of "Bush" policies. I didnt like alot of what happened while he was in office. I dont agree with everything Obama is doing now either. But just like the picture of the sign "White Slavery" during a tea party gathering, i think the clown faced Bush is in poor taste. Anyone has the right to post that. And i have the right to say its immature, tacky and disrespectful of the highest office in our land.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 9:52:47 AM   
WantingToServe11


Posts: 93
Joined: 1/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I will admit Bush was an idiot though, and he ignored illegal immigration, and signed even more free trade agreements.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

By the way, Clinton is the one who passed NAFTA, and China and our economy has been going downhill ever since.


Wrong again. Real GDP and Real GDP per capita have steadily climbed:

1992 -- Real GDP $8,287.1 billion, ($32,255 per capita)
2009 -- Real GDP $12,987.4 billion, ($42,247 per capita)

http://www.measuringworth.org/datasets/usgdp/result.php (in 2005 dollars)


Can you prove that this growth is a result of free trade and NAFTA? The other question that comes to mind is what is 8 billion dollars in 1992 worth now? 

< Message edited by WantingToServe11 -- 4/11/2010 9:59:47 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 9:55:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Maybe im wrong, but i think the point being made is that NAFTA did not hurt GDP.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to WantingToServe11)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 9:55:36 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I don't need to---his claim was "our economy has been going downhill ever since." It hasn't--it's grown dramatically.

Plenty of NAFTA analysis out there though--have fun.


(in reply to WantingToServe11)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 9:57:12 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

what is 8 billion dollars in 1992 worth now?


$8.71 billion in 2009 dollars.

By the way, that's 8 TRILLION, not billion---8,000 billion.

Here....for your own calculations...
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/11/2010 9:59:09 AM >

(in reply to WantingToServe11)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 9:58:11 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I think we all should give MM a nice unicorn.    Wouldn't that ROCK?

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 9:59:31 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I'll stick to reality, thanks.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 10:00:00 AM   
WantingToServe11


Posts: 93
Joined: 1/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Wrong again. Real GDP and Real GDP per capita have steadily climbed:

1992 -- Real GDP $8,287.1 billion, ($32,255 per capita)
2009 -- Real GDP $12,987.4 billion, ($42,247 per capita)

http://www.measuringworth.org/datasets/usgdp/result.php (in 2005 dollars)


Technically it isn't growth per inflation Music. http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm.

$12,000,000,000,000.00 in 2009 had about the same buying power as $7,871,453,850,105.60 in 1992.Annual inflation over this period was about 2.51%.

< Message edited by WantingToServe11 -- 4/11/2010 10:01:52 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 10:01:23 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, it is growth--that's why I quoted the REAL GDP figures instead of GDP.

[Real GDP IS nominal GDP adjusted for inflation.]

That analysis was down in 2005 dollars--but you could do the same in 2009 dollars in a few minutes if you want.

Everything, though, will be proportionately the same.






< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/11/2010 10:03:27 AM >

(in reply to WantingToServe11)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 10:03:01 AM   
WantingToServe11


Posts: 93
Joined: 1/17/2010
Status: offline 		Oh, I didn't know you quoted the REAL GDP. Sorry!

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 10:19:34 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Green bugary shits. 



I mean shoots.

(in reply to WantingToServe11)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 10:36:32 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantingToServe11

Oh, I didn't know you quoted the REAL GDP. Sorry!


No worries.

And yes, that makes today's (2009) Real GDP, in 2009 dollars, $14.148 trillion dollars.

The U.S. alone is 1/5 of the global economy.

NAFTA created the world's largest free trade zone, larger even than the EU.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/11/2010 10:37:16 AM >

(in reply to WantingToServe11)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 10:38:29 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		MM, I think your assessment is overly enthusiastic.

We are BROKE.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 10:40:12 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		It's not an assessment. It is raw numbers.

How all that money gets spent is another topic entirely

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(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 10:40:16 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		My assessment is neither optimistic nor pessimistic.

It's simply the numbers, adjusted for inflation.

As a percentage of Real GDP, we were FAR greater in debt in the 40s.
And I'm not defending the high debt--I just don't think exaggerating the situation is helpful.

But the initial claim was that the economy has been going down the tubes since NAFTA. It hasn't. It's grown again by half.

Nor are we anywhere remotely close to broke. We are extremely resource rich.










< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/11/2010 10:45:53 AM >

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 10:44:55 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Understood.

However- I see it all as smoke and mirrors.



(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 11:42:31 AM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		Give me a break. They have transformed us into a service economy from a manufacutring economy now. GDP is not a valid method of determining whether our standard of living has risen or fallen. Think about it. Since we are a service economy now, many industries sell services worldwide that only benefit the company not the employee's. For example, they can develop a software package and sell worldwide which makes the company rich, but only a handful of employees actually benefit. Yet, these figures are added to the GDP.

It's the same kind of brain washing that occurs when the federal government tells you the economy is growing, and everyone thinks that that is all that matters. Well obviously when you allow in half a million illegal aliens each year, and another million from legal Immigration the economy is going to grow. So does cancer, especially when we have to expand our infrastructure such as schools, teachers, roads, and bridges, which is why property taxes go up each year. This is not a healthy growth when you have to subsidize the growth. It's cancer. As I've said many times before, we have a $10 trillion national debt, $1.6 trillion budget deficit this year, 800 billion trade deficit a few years ago (improved slightly during recession), 1 in 9 people are on food stamps, more people are below the poverty level and without health insurance than ever before, and 47% of all households no longer have to pay federal income taxes because they either make too little money or have enough dependents to offset it. This is a train wreck waiting to happen.

Don't forget the lack of energy independence thanks to democrats has now launched us into the largest transfer of wealth in history to the oil producing countries. I don't care what the GDP says, this is a monumental disaster in the making.

Oh, and just wait till the baby boomers finish spending their parents inheritance. All hell is going to break loose, and kids today won't have anyone to fall back on like their parents do now.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 11:53:18 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

GDP is not a valid method of determining whether our standard of living has risen or fallen.


Perhaps not. But Real GDP per capita is--given that you set this as an economic discussion.

Using 2009 dollars, Real GDP per capita in 1992 was $35,137.49.

In 2009, it was $46,022.43--an inflation adjusted increase of $10,884.94 for every man, woman and child in the U.S.--a 31% percent increase in our standard of living.

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 11:56:30 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		my property taxes did not go up this year.     God I love red necks.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 40
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