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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 11:59:08 AM   
cuckoldmepls


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By the way, the reason nafta has been a disaster is for a number of reasons. First of all, it did nothing to stop illegal immigration. It has only gotton worse. One of the biggest selling points of nafta, was that by providing jobs in mexico, it would eventually all but end illegal immigration. Did it work?

Secondly, manufacturing jobs always pay more since people have to have products. Service jobs pay less since people can do without services and do it themselves.

Third, when you have a manufacturing based economy with high wages, there are hundreds of businesses in that surrounding area that thrive off their employees patronage. Once you close down a plant, at least 25% of the surrounding businesses shut down, and the only ones who survive are the ones who own their building and don't have to lease it or they have a product that people have to have regardless of how bad the economy is.

Fourth, it has now become obvious that they are attempting to use nafta as an excuse for a North American Union. As long as nafta is in place, corporations and/or future politicians will continue to use it for that purpose. This is treason. If they had told the people what nafta would eventually do, the people would have demanded it be voted down.

Fifth, the reason the national debt has soared, is because every time you buy a foreign product, those foreign employees who made it don't pay u.s. income taxes.

Sixth,  is it wise to become dependent on Mexico for our products, and allow them to take over our freight industry, which would allow them to go on strike when they don't get what they want?

Seventh, China is also in the planning stages of building a car factory in Mexico, which is a sign of things to come from other nations as well. Was NAFTA meant to give the whole world a launching pad to undercut our economy?

Then Rep. Benjamin Cardin (Senator now I think), the top Democrat on the Ways and Means trade subcommittee said "The administration's trade policies have contributed to the loss of 3 million U.S. manufacturing jobs since 2000. We cannot let that continue."

Why would Mexico buy anything from us, if they manufacture everything already? Services you say? What kind of services? Are they going to hire us to wash their windows and mow their lawns? Sounds like to us that the only companies that are going to benefit from this deal are microsoft, walmart, and the large home improvement stores. They won't even buy computers from us since eventually they will either be made in Mexico or China if they aren't already.

One more thought. If the Mexican government, and a handful of large corporations want to keep NAFTA, what does that tell you? It tells me that we should do exactly the opposite.


(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:00:34 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

They have transformed us into a service economy from a manufacutring economy now.

This is another myth.

Yes, the service sector has grown considerable faster. But manufacturing is also alive and well. Just for example:

PERFORMANCE BY INDUSTRY (March 2010)

Economic activity in the manufacturing sector expanded in March for the eighth consecutive month, and the overall economy grew for the 11th consecutive month, say the nation's supply executives in the latest Manufacturing ISM Report On Business.

The 17 manufacturing industries reporting growth in March — listed in order — are:

Apparel, Leather & Allied Products; Textile Mills; Electrical Equipment, Appliances & Components; Miscellaneous Manufacturing; Transportation Equipment; Machinery; Computer & Electronic Products; Paper Products; Petroleum & Coal Products; Food, Beverage & Tobacco Products; Furniture & Related Products; Nonmetallic Mineral Products; Fabricated Metal Products; Wood Products; Printing & Related Support Activities; Chemical Products; and Primary Metals.

Plastics & Rubber Products is the only industry reporting contraction during March.

http://www.ipa.org/knowledge-center/industry-news/ism-report-indicates-new-orders-production-employment-and-inventories

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:04:15 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Why would Mexico buy anything from us

U.S. exports to Mexico include electronic equipment, motor vehicle parts, and chemicals. Mexico is the second-largest export market for the United States.

Here's a detailed list:
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/product/enduse/exports/c2010.html

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:05:51 PM   
cuckoldmepls


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I forgot number 8. Here's an example. It takes 3 times as many people to manufacture a trash can here and sell it here, as it does to only sell a chinese trash can. That's only common sense. Their argument that it creates sales, and service jobs is ludicrous. For example, if car dealers weren't selling foreign cars, then they would be selling American cars, and hiring mechanics to work on them. So there is no gain in jobs. In fact, when you manufacture anything  here you create 3 times as many jobs, since those manufacturers almost always require manufacturing, and raw material vendors. Then you can add in all the truck drivers who transport those vendor materials, on top of the finished products. Then if you want to really boggle the mind, add in the vendors vendors and their associated trucking jobs.

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:07:02 PM   
cuckoldmepls


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They only tell you want they want you to hear.

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:07:57 PM   
Musicmystery


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Unfortunately, economic data just doesn't support your assertions.

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:13:43 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

They only tell you want they want you to hear.


He is referrring to me of course. 

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:16:59 PM   
pahunkboy


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http://www.wimp.com/budgetcuts   here is an idea less then 2 min vid on the budget size.

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:17:01 PM   
cuckoldmepls


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We obviously have some globalists in here who believe everything the government tells them. I suspect that even one or two are actually government disinformation specialists working to preserve the NWO agenda. I would imagine that every board, chat room, and group has people in them to support their agenda. Probably all making $100k a year at your expense. I also know for a fact that at least one person in this forum actually has admitted that he makes his living off of free trade. So who are you going to believe? The government, biased individuals, or me.

There simply is no denying that before nafta and china passed we had budget surpluses, and our economy was about to explode into prosperity. The fact of the matter is that if other countries don't have the natural resources and capitilistic system to build their own economy, then they must feed off of someone else in order to do it. There's no possible way we can take on the entire world as a liability and survive. Now, we have 10% unemployement, black unemployment is 16%, personal debt is at record levels, more people are living at home with their parents than ever before, and our economy almost collapsed once already. They were barely able to prop it up at least temporarily. The world economy will collapse once we do. End of story.

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:19:16 PM   
cuckoldmepls


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The reason it doesn't make sense to you is because you have no common sense in the first place. That's obvious to people who don't believe everything the government tells them.

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:20:41 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

By the way, Clinton is the one who passed NAFTA


Incidentally, since you keep repeating this point in various threads---

Clinton supported it and signed it into law, yes. The 1994 Republican Congress passed it.

And rightly so, incidentally. The benefits greatly exceeded tradeoffs.

But if you're using this as a point against a Democratic administration, as you continually do, be aware that electing a Republican would be a step in the wrong direction, as free trade is very much a Republican platform.

It's union oriented Democrats who oppose it.


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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:25:08 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

We obviously have some globalists in here who believe everything the government tells them.

No...you have people showing you the economic data you're ignoring, while you continue making unsupported claims.

quote:

There simply is no denying that before nafta and china passed we had budget surpluses, and our economy was about to explode into prosperity.

You really are confused. Our economy DID explode into prosperity.

Before NAFTA we did NOT have budget surpluses. During the 1970s and 1980s, the US Federal Budget ran deficits for twenty straight years. Finally in the 1990s, another economic boom enabled four years of budget surpluses. These surpluses temporarily slowed the growth of the National Debt.

Take a look: http://www.kowaldesign.com/budget/

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:31:42 PM   
cuckoldmepls


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Since you can't comprehend anything and only repeat government propoganda, let's do this. How about everyone who has a job or a close relative that actually benefits from free trade, vote for free trade globalists. The rest of us will vote for moderates who do not support free trade. Oh, and let's not forget all the people who either had a good paying manufacturing job or had a relative that lost a good paying manufacturing job, then those people should vote for moderates who don't support free trade too.

Now, I know this is hard for you to comprehend since you believe if it benefits walmart then it's got to be good for America, but perhaps you can get an idea of how the election will turn out.

America wins hands down. NWO globalists can still live in their contaminated chinese made drywall homes, feed their pets poisoned chinese ingredients in their pet food, and let your kids play with lead contaminated chinese toys. That way you can still be happy.


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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:37:02 PM   
Musicmystery


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Since you're unable to provide any support whatsoever, let's do this--

Clearly, you have a lot of strongly held but completely mistaken beliefs.

The data show you are mistaken. But you'd rather believe your inventions than sort out fiction from reality.

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:37:15 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

This site is a member of the free speech coalition. So whether you like the picture or not, he has a right to post it. I've had one picture deleted, simply because it offended someone, and that is nonsense. If you support censorship on an adult site then you are no better than a democrat who supports censorship in the public media simply because it may offend some group.

By the way, Clinton is the one who passed NAFTA, and China and our economy has been going downhill ever since. It always takes 5 to 10 years for the effects of economic policies to begin to reveal themselves, and Clinton inherited a great economy from Reagan.

I will admit Bush was an idiot though, and he ignored illegal immigration, and signed even more free trade agreements. What a moron. Obama is refusing to enforce our immigration laws as well and his promise about renegotiating nafta was just another lie. Behind closed doors his people were secretly telling Canadian officials not to worry about it. The point is, only a true conservative will do something about this mess we are in. Liberals and RINO's caused all of this, and none of them will admit they made a mistake and change course.

Bush was not a true conservative because true conservatives don't monitor legal citizens unconstitutionally, attempt a North American Union without the consent of the people, and they don't spend more money than they take in. They also don't attempt to hand over political control of their country to Latin America by ignoring Illegal immigration. The ironic part here is, that most people are aware that the federal government is the problem, yet they voted for even more government, rather than less. I suppose when people see no hope, they are forced to rely on the government, but in this case the government is a liability, not an asset. It's not like the great depression where our government was in good financial shape, and they were able to pull us out of it. This time they are only getting us in deeper.

www.apathetic-usa.com
http://protectourborder.net/slideshow.html





Well said. Yeah, we should have been out of "NAFTA" years ago! I wonder what they're waiting for?
We just can't do business with third world countries like Mexico.
And it was Clinton who signed that POS into law. I'd like to see a reporter ask Clinton what he thinks of "NAFTA" now!
This is the type of thing that troubles me about my govt; everyone "knows" that "Nafta" is a failure and that The People don't want it yet,.....we're still in it?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:39:18 PM   
Musicmystery


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popeye,

That's because
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Mexico is the second-largest export market for the United States.

U.S. exports to Mexico include electronic equipment, motor vehicle parts, and chemicals.

Here's a detailed list:
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/product/enduse/exports/c2010.html

Canada is our largest export market.

China and Japan are third and fourth.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/11/2010 12:43:40 PM >

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:43:29 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

The reason it doesn't make sense to you is because you have no common sense in the first place. That's obvious to people who don't believe everything the government tells them.

Just out of interest, were you complaining about outsourcing when Reagan first started doing away with American manufacturing industry in the '80s, or are you somebody else who's only started complaining about the NWO and the globalists since there's been a Kenyan democrat in the white house?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:44:08 PM   
pahunkboy


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MM, WTF do "we" manufacture anymore?


Lordy LORDY!

Where is my whiskey!  Stomp

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:46:01 PM   
Musicmystery


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He still hasn't caught on that globalization is a Republican issue.

One I happen to support. But a Republican issue.

Clinton was an exception--and the 1994 Republican Congress passed NAFTA. Democrats more traditionally court labor by protecting domestic jobs.

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RE: Not Fooled by GOP Spin: Americans Still Blame Bush ... - 4/11/2010 12:46:40 PM   
Moonhead


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Off the top of my head, guitars, electronics, heavy plant, aircraft and military hardware.
I'm sure somebody who actually lives in the 'States could suggest a lot more, though.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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