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RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:10:18 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		The thing I think you are missing brainiacsub, is that there is something called "reality".  In the world of international nation states, it's called realpolitik.  Thems with the big guns (and willing to use them) make the rules (a little more complex than that, but it'll do for now).


How the fuck can it be more complex than that.  You are talking about being a thug right? 
Now you talk all this shit about the rule of law but when the muscle is on your side you do not give a fuck about the law.  You are espousing international thugery.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:20:16 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		“They (the Romans) make a desert, and they call it peace”
-Tacticus

And now the Romans are historical notes and no longer a power and they were brought down by insurgents

The Mongols did a pretty good job as well.

Your understanding of the Yuan dynasty leaves more than a little to be desired.  They too were snuffed out in less than a century(also by insurgents)...one of he shortest lived dynasties in China's history
I suspect even the Europeans in both North and South American used pretty much the same approach.
/b]
Really...that is why we have Indian gaming now because all of the native Americans were exterminated?

Lots of examples throughout history, thompson.


So far you have not shown me one.  


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:24:07 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Why is it that the men with the biggest dicks do most of their thinking with them?

Being the biggest dick is not the same as having the bigest dick.

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:25:23 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

First off brainiac...thanks for the big dick endorsement....I've been trying to get the word out,but being a gentleman has hampered my ability to advertise.
Now as for disagreeing with me...all well and good that you do.But was not my assessment of what actually happened as a result of the Mullah's decision to dig his heels in correct?
In other words the point isn't whether or not we should have....the point is following 9/11 and correct reading of the situation should have led any competent thinking man to know we WOULD have.
As Firm stated it....realpolitik.

Sorry, Mike... that was hardly an endorsement, but thanks for playing ;)

You are suggesting that Mullah Omar should have possessed the same reasoning and understanding of the situation that we did? These people live a harsh, subsistence existence. They don't live in the modern world. They don't see the world the way we do. Our military superiority gives us liscense to blow them to kingdom come when they fail to see things our way? We couldn't have just outsmarted them instead?

I am a defense hawk, Mike, and believe in protecting our interests at home and abroad, but I am not convinced that we have accomplished that with these wars. In the case of Iraq, I remain hopeful that history will look favorably on the permanent changes to the region inspite of our misque there, but certainly not because of it.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:31:46 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		I am a defense hawk, Mike, and believe in protecting our interests at home and abroad, 

What do you mean by "our interest"?
Are you talking about the interests of Exxon to drill in the Amazon against the will of the locals?
Are you talking about the interests of ADM in Brazil?
Are you talking about the interests of United Fruit in Nicaragua?
Which interests are you willing for your son or daughter to go bleed for?

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:32:19 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
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From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Why is it that the men with the biggest dicks do most of their thinking with them?

Being the biggest dick is not the same as having the bigest dick.

Well, when it comes to comparing dicks, I'm hardly an expert. Maybe you could show me examples of each?

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:33:36 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Firm as far as your statement that "Any reduction in the US's deterrent power is destabilizing......."
Do you really think that has occurred here?
Given all of our other military advantages....given our huge stockpiles of these weapons...our submarine based weapon systems ,our strategic bomber forces...You see this as weakening us in some way?

Mike,

Depending on the actual terms of the US/Russian treaty, it could be destabilizing.  I've not read the proposed treaty, so I can't yet be sure.

I don't think that a reduction in the number of nukes is inherently destabilizing. I do think changing our policy of "non-first use" (not sure if that is on the table), and publicly saying that we won't use nukes in the case of a bio or chem attack (which is on the table) is destabilizing to our deterrence.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:34:32 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Well, when it comes to comparing dicks, I'm hardly an expert.

You are an educated woman...I have no doubt you can tell the difference.
John Holms might be an example of one and Newt Gingrich might be an example of the other. 

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/12/2010 1:36:03 PM >

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:35:11 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I do wonder tho- if the nukes will be privatized.


You know-- they keep selling off the house.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:35:34 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I won't send pictures (so impersonal...and I do have some standards yanno)but a more....er ,shall we say personal viewing is not out of the question.Of course you would need to pay expenses.That is non -negotiable.
By the way thanks for bring back the smiling pretty face ;-)

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:38:16 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Firm as far as your statement that "Any reduction in the US's deterrent power is destabilizing......."
Do you really think that has occurred here?
Given all of our other military advantages....given our huge stockpiles of these weapons...our submarine based weapon systems ,our strategic bomber forces...You see this as weakening us in some way?

Mike,

Depending on the actual terms of the US/Russian treaty, it could be destabilizing.  I've not read the proposed treaty, so I can't yet be sure.

I don't think that a reduction in the number of nukes is inherently destabilizing. I do think changing our policy of "non-first use" (not sure if that is on the table), and publicly saying that we won't use nukes in the case of a bio or chem attack (which is on the table) is destabilizing to our deterrence.

Firm



Firm, wasn't it non-first use against non-nuclear nations?

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:38:23 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

[...]
“They (the Romans) make a desert, and they call it peace”
-Tacticus

The Mongols did a pretty good job as well.

I suspect even the Europeans in both North and South American used pretty much the same approach.

Lots of examples throughout history, thompson.  Widen your thinking a bit.

Firm


Perfect, Firm. Let's abandoned the advances in our understanding and technology since the middle ages and go back to a scorched earth strategy.


brainiacsub,

I'm not sure why you are saying I'm advocating any such thing.

I made the point that Western civilization isn't ruthless enough to "win" an insurgency through this historically used method.  thompson said (basically) that no one has used this method.  I gave him some examples for him to better understand my point, and the historical record.

This isn't advocacy, just a discussion of the historical record.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:39:17 PM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I am a defense hawk, Mike, and believe in protecting our interests at home and abroad, 

What do you mean by "our interest"?
Are you talking about the interests of Exxon to drill in the Amazon against the will of the locals?
Are you talking about the interests of ADM in Brazil?
Are you talking about the interests of United Fruit in Nicaragua?
Which interests are you willing for your son or daughter to go bleed for?

No, I was speaking strictly on issues of self defense. I believe our government has a right and obligation to its citizens to protect us from threats. I just don't believe there has been a real threat since WWII. At the same time, I am not so blinded as to how the world works and understand that the definition of "threat" may be a moving target.

< Message edited by brainiacsub -- 4/12/2010 1:42:35 PM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:43:14 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		thompson said (basically) that no one has used this method.  I gave him some examples for him to better understand my point, and the historical record

And I pointed out that your examples were as full of shit as you are.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/12/2010 1:44:09 PM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:44:38 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


If what you are attempting to say, is that the US invaded Afghanistan for it's natural resources ... this has been discredited many times.

where?


Start a "Blood for Oil" thread, and if I'm interested enough, and have the time, I'll respond.

There are people who still believe the earth is flat, too.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:46:30 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: countrychick

So you mean to say that the terrorists who did the whole 9-11 thing were acting under the direct orders of the Afghan government? Not in their own self interests and hey lets poke the sleeping giant?


The government of Afghanistan allowed the training and gave material support to an organization which had declared war on the US, and then proceeded to attack and murder American citizens in our homeland.

We asked that the Afghan government turn over the people responsible and stop providing support.

They refused.

Morally, and legally, this made the government of Afghanistan complicit in the attacks, and guilty of waging war on the US.

Firm


By that logic, old boy, we'd have been justified in nuking Washington after one of the IRA Christmas bombings, wouldn't we?
It's probably just as well that Trident wasn't a very independent deterrent after all, really.

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(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:46:44 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

thompson said (basically) that no one has used this method.  I gave him some examples for him to better understand my point, and the historical record

And I pointed out that your examples were as full of shit as you are.


Time to read some history, thompson.

Met any Carthagians lately?

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:47:02 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		No, I was speaking strictly on issues of self defense. I believe our government has a right and obligation to its citizens to protect us from threats. I just don't believe there has been a real threat since WWII. At the same time, I am not so blinded as to how the world works and understand that the definition of "threat" may be a moving target.

Why do you think WWII was a real threat?

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:50:10 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Met any Carthagians lately?

Carthaginians were not insurgents.  Carthage was an outpost of the Phoenician Empire which waged conventional war against Rome.
Yes it is time you started to read a little history.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Obama Weakens American National Defense; Liberals C... - 4/12/2010 1:52:38 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


If what you are attempting to say, is that the US invaded Afghanistan for it's natural resources ... this has been discredited many times.

where?


Start a "Blood for Oil" thread, and if I'm interested enough, and have the time, I'll respond.

There are people who still believe the earth is flat, too.

Firm



So as usual you have posted some more unsubstantiated bullshit.
And when called on it you fail to back up your statements.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 140
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