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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 7:57:57 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

You two should get a room


you should have stayed in law school.




You should have stayed in High School

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(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 8:06:26 AM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Pretty soon we'll be working back to play dates!

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 8:08:05 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

You two should get a room


you should have stayed in law school.




You should have stayed in High School


Quit masturbating.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 8:15:11 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
But I am not sure that it is as simple a matter as making denial a crime in this instance. Rather I see this particular prohibition as part and parcel of something larger that was seen to be necessary to the rehabilitation of the German and certain other European peoples - the rendering impossible, by use of law, of any possibility of rehabilitation of the nazi movement; branded forever with its crimes, unable whether at one stroke or incrementally to shake itself free of association with them.

There may come a time when this law, and similar laws designed to this end, are relaxed or repealed. But as long as we have those who, for whatever reason, seek to rehabilitate naziism to show it as anything other than a philosophy of inhumanity that led to the deaths in repression, war and industrialised genocide of millions, I see no reason to criticise those who take an approach which includes such prohibition.


I lived in Germany for more than half my life. From that experience, I can say that their laws about holocaust denials don't help to rehabilitate them, quite in the contrary. If you have to threaten your own population with longer prison terms than most murderers receive, the government is effectively saying "German subjects don't believe the holocaust happened, and can't be trusted not to say so in polite company." And it's true - growing up I learned the official position in school - and at home learned that the holocaust was based on a bunch of lies (it's one of the reasons I left Germany - I happen to believe that the holocaust was real).

Another important point: not only was the bishop convicted. His attorney was also convicted and is now serving three years in prison just for defending him (technically she was actually convicted for repeating what he said, which of course is essential for an effective defense).

Germany does not have freedom of speech in their Grundgesetz (constitution). In fact, the whole concept is quite foreign to Germans. The Grundgesetz only guarantees freedom of the press, freedom of opinion and freedom to obtain publicly accessible information, and then only as long as it doesn't conflict with any laws. The Bundesverfassungsgericht (German supreme court) decided that the question of whether the holocaust took place or not is a question of fact rather than opinion, and therefore not protected by the Grundgesetz.


(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 8:16:19 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

And to what possible end should I devote my time to further debate on any subject with you I wonder? It is abundantly clear that referees or not, rules or not, you should disregard anything I said or contributed to the contrary in order to maintain your ill founded and quite honestly curious arguments as you do here, day in and day out, at the same time never definitively stating your position or evidence - such that it is impossible to pin you down and demonstrate you to be in error.

I will stick with crucifying people in Courts of law thanks - though I appreciate that makes me a tool of the evil empire or some such nonsense.

E



I had the same problem with a physics teacher in college.

The SOB always had answers to back his ass up and it always appeared to me that he disregarded my arguments when in fact he did not.  Many occasions he would explain things to me and I would tell him "now in english" and it frustrated the shit out of him as well.

as far as demonsrtating me to be in error you just did when you told me I did not properly interpret what you said and I accepted your position and moved on from there.

you might want to review what you are calling "courts of law" and listen to the people on the grand jury have to say.  Apparently that part of the so called "law" has not been forthcoming to you..

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3165653/tm.htm

To what end?  For the hell of it.  Demonstrate the validity of your position.

Well if you want to poke fun of the "evil empire" then I will be the first to remind you when you complain about it

listen to the rule of law radio wher ethe grand jurer talks about the experience in court et al and how injustice errmmm I mean justice is served.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 4/17/2010 8:18:13 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 8:18:40 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		To what end?


Every end is for the glory of EMPIRE.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 9:03:03 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
I love it when you post this crap about Europe.



Given the number of Europeans and Canadian who feel completely comfortable commenting at length regarding their ignorant ass opinions on how the internal workings of my country should be handled, Polite, you just need to deal with it.


_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 9:14:54 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
I love it when you post this crap about Europe.



Given the number of Europeans and Canadian who feel completely comfortable commenting at length regarding their ignorant ass opinions on how the internal workings of my country should be handled, Polite, you just need to deal with it.




yup all this propaganda agenda crap originates from the crown.  Every board out here except one has scads of them pushing their aristocratic monarchy socialist agenda ad homodisingenuous in america.

Last time I checked to the tune of 20 yers ago the crown has legal title interest in over 65% of everything on the earth including people.

Hows that for a jaw dropper


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 9:28:34 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Yup.   The Crown own it all. 





(most of it)




(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 9:34:01 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		More B/s from Realone and Pahunk. No change there then. The crown own 65% of the earth...... you couldnt make that crap up, except you just did.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 9:36:21 AM   
SaintIntensity


Posts: 177
Joined: 5/25/2007
Status: offline 		one can only wonder what sort of "research" 20 years ago could reveal this shocking fact?
did HRH keep (and publish!)  receipts?

more absolute nonsense from Team Chucklehead - I think they must be a wind-up act, its getting zanier by the day


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 9:39:06 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		well, since it is first covered with about 75% water (and Real didnt go off on maritime law) that 65 percent would be 65 percent of 25 percent, except that I bet Russia and the United States alone are encroaching on 35 percent.

Real is lousy at etymology, math, logic, latin, law and a failure at several other fields of intelligent endeavor, so ---------you can't expect him to be able to deal in such arcane concepts as ratio, since there is no ratiocination available to him.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 9:41:20 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
I love it when you post this crap about Europe.
[/quote}


Given the number of Europeans and Canadian who feel completely comfortable commenting at length regarding their ignorant ass opinions on how the internal workings of my country should be handled, Polite, you just need to deal with it.



Ah yes, pick up on this, so you dont have to answer my point about American law. Typical spin from you but not wholly unexpected. Any chance you could answer the actual point I made ?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 9:57:52 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53



I love it when you post this crap about Europe. The reason these laws came into use was because neo nazi parties were using it as a tactic to inflame anti semitic feelings. Tell me how this differs with past cases involving the kkk. Specifically, Brandenburgh. Seems to me his free speech was curtailed, and rightly so in my view.



What about Brandenburg???

The Court's Per Curiam opinion held that the Ohio law violated Brandenburg's right to free speech.

http://www.oyez.org/cases/1960-1969/1968/1968_492/

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 10:05:25 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		He means Builderburg.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 10:25:14 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SaintIntensity

one can only wonder what sort of "research" 20 years ago could reveal this shocking fact?
did HRH keep (and publish!)  receipts?

more absolute nonsense from Team Chucklehead - I think they must be a wind-up act, its getting zanier by the day




hell you should know!

your research extends to reading my post!

at least ron knows how to google!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to SaintIntensity)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 10:28:46 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well, since it is first covered with about 75% water (and Real didnt go off on maritime law) that 65 percent would be 65 percent of 25 percent, except that I bet Russia and the United States alone are encroaching on 35 percent.

Real is lousy at etymology, math, logic, latin, law and a failure at several other fields of intelligent endeavor, so ---------you can't expect him to be able to deal in such arcane concepts as ratio, since there is no ratiocination available to him.


reinventing the topics into a new image for the sole purpose of an unfounded slam only exemplifies your failure to argue your points.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 10:36:03 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well, since it is first covered with about 75% water (and Real didnt go off on maritime law) that 65 percent would be 65 percent of 25 percent, except that I bet Russia and the United States alone are encroaching on 35 percent.

Real is lousy at etymology, math, logic, latin, law and a failure at several other fields of intelligent endeavor, so ---------you can't expect him to be able to deal in such arcane concepts as ratio, since there is no ratiocination available to him.


reinventing the topics into a new image for the sole purpose of an unfounded slam only exemplifies your failure to argue your points.
\


He is no gentleman.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 12:43:12 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53



I love it when you post this crap about Europe. The reason these laws came into use was because neo nazi parties were using it as a tactic to inflame anti semitic feelings. Tell me how this differs with past cases involving the kkk. Specifically, Brandenburgh. Seems to me his free speech was curtailed, and rightly so in my view.



What about Brandenburg???

The Court's Per Curiam opinion held that the Ohio law violated Brandenburg's right to free speech.

http://www.oyez.org/cases/1960-1969/1968/1968_492/


Your own quote contains the paragraph below, which is the same reason the German law was brought in.

: (1) speech can be prohibited if it is "directed at inciting or producing imminent lawless action" and (2) it is "likely to incite or produce such action."




(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 12:45:43 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

reinventing the topics into a new image for the sole purpose of an unfounded slam only exemplifies your failure to argue your points.




Rather like your comments about the Crown. 

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 80
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