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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 12:52:19 PM   
TheHeretic


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Right, Polite. And Brandenburg was determined not to meet that standard. We set the bar much higher in the States than you might be used to.

Now the current flap with the Hutaree might be a better example for you to play with. That gets much deeper into the gray area of where words become actions. It also has the advantage of not being challenged yet.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 12:53:18 PM   
pahunkboy


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Heavens forbid we criticize the Crown.


We don't make good subjects.     lol

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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 12:55:40 PM   
Termyn8or


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"I am all for free speech Jeff. I just happen to think that stopping racists from denying the holocaust is justified. "

Not that I haven't read the thread, in fact today I was just rereading it to see if I had anything to say and apparently I missed your statement.

Do you have any fucking idea how contradictory that statement is ?

You are all for free speech.
But stopping racists is OK.
Especially if they refute a part of false history that has to be enforced.

Please tell me that you were fucking drunk or high when you typed that. Please tell me something because otherwise you have buried yourself, despite what the truth of the matter is.

Are you the type to shun N_____ jokes, Jew jiokes and such but enjoy Arab jokes or some other people "we" don't like because they are OK. If that is true YOU are the bigot, not me.

T

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:00:10 PM   
Termyn8or


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"I think the point is obvious.....not to mention insidious"

I call bullshit because that statement is very contradictory on it's face. So are all you status quo supporters telling the truth or do you just want to on the side that's winning at the moment ?

T

(in reply to slvemike4u)
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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:04:00 PM   
Termyn8or


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"I find Holocaust deniers to be low, mindless, racist website searching scum. "

And how did you find that ?

It takes one to know one, meaning that if you accept the official version of those events as gospel, you are sitting at the same table.

T

(in reply to Jeffff)
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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:05:14 PM   
pahunkboy


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Then there is the part that the meaning of "denier" keeps changing.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:06:12 PM   
Termyn8or


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"Just because they are wrong (and demonstrably s..."

It's your turn. Were you there ?

T

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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:08:40 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Just because they are wrong (and demonstrably s..."

It's your turn. Were you there ?

T



If you don't send Israel 20% of your salary-- then I think you are a denier.




;-0

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:09:32 PM   
Termyn8or


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"I used to be in favor of free speech laws, but now just want these idiots put in FEMA Death Camps"

Or you could go to Germany and smell Ernst Zundel rot in prison. But you have no fucking business in MY country.

T

(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:13:42 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"I am all for free speech Jeff. I just happen to think that stopping racists from denying the holocaust is justified. "

Not that I haven't read the thread, in fact today I was just rereading it to see if I had anything to say and apparently I missed your statement.

Do you have any fucking idea how contradictory that statement is ?

You are all for free speech.
But stopping racists is OK.
Especially if they refute a part of false history that has to be enforced.

Please tell me that you were fucking drunk or high when you typed that. Please tell me something because otherwise you have buried yourself, despite what the truth of the matter is.

Are you the type to shun N_____ jokes, Jew jiokes and such but enjoy Arab jokes or some other people "we" don't like because they are OK. If that is true YOU are the bigot, not me.

T


I guess my post was too bright for you to follow Termy. You obviously cant see the difference between free speech, as most normal people would see it, and inciting hatred. Or are you telling me inciting hatred is fine by you ?

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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:15:23 PM   
pahunkboy


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Incite?

everything you see on TV "incites"

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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:15:23 PM   
Termyn8or


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"I also believe Termyn8or makes a good point - all this fuss over denying something so gargantuan, so horrific and so well evidenced may well serve the denial better than the truth. "

So Dear, do you accept it or at least admit the possiblitiy of some untruth on the official version, or is that too horrific for your mind ? If not, don't go to Germany anymore.

T

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:17:37 PM   
Jack45


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I read the 1st post then came to last, p5, I think you hit it on the head, Freedom of Speech is the issue.
The ACLU in this country has sure backed off defending unpopular causes, people. They used to be really good, because their client, they used to say, was the 1st Amendment, not the individual event or person.
Today, they don't take cases from far-right. Too many donors complained in the past after that big drag out all the way to the Supreme Court about Skokie.

First Amendment is first for a reason. I recall the left clamoring for free speech, now they run the show and don't want it, except for their viewpoint. An example:

quote:

...we've been saying that new hate crime laws would threaten free speech, and the Left keeps saying "No, it's only about crime." The ADL's Abraham Foxman has publically called for Tea Party demonstrators be prosecuted for politically incorrect speech, under hate crime laws, for "slurs":

"Our leaders should demand criminal prosecution for those who cross the line. Acts like throwing bricks through the windows of Congressional offices, spitting on African-American elected officials, slinging of same racial slurs en rout to the Capitol– the same that Rep John Lewis was subjected to in 1965 in Selma, Alabama—and mailing anti-Semitic threats are not constitutionally protected, and require a strong legal response. "[The Big Question: How Should Republicans Respond to Threats? By Abraham H. Foxman, March 25, 2010]
 
The part I've italicized in the middle is the dangerous one, dangerous to freedom of speech, that is, since it's the least dangerous on a list of not very dangerous acts.

And it's interesting that it goes in the middle between the other examples. Everyone agrees that bricks aren't speech, that spitting isn't speech, and that threats, which are speech, aren't First Amendment protected free speech, any more than a robber can plead the First Amendment when he says "Stick 'em up."

But calling government officials rude names is speech, it's the "speechiest" speech around. It's what the Founders meant to protect. And that's what Mr. Foxman wants to see prosecuted under the "hate crime" laws. And this in spite of the facts that

The spitting never happened--Representative Cleaver wasn't actually spat on, he's admitted that he just happened to be standing too close to a man who was spluttering with rage, what actors call "spraying the audience."


The slurring never happened either, a man named Andrew Breitbart offered a 10,000 dollar reward for video of anyone saying the N-word during the incident—no takers, in spite of the fact that everyone present was holding up their cell phones.

And remember, Mr. Foxman's article isn't addressed to Eric Holder's Justice Department—it's addressed to Republicans. Republicans who are, according to him, supposed to rein in their "nativists", and stop the "hate." This will probably appeal to John McCain and David Frum. It may even appeal to National Review.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:18:14 PM   
susie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Yup.   The Crown own it all. 





(most of it)






Any particular Crown? There are quite a few floating around Europe.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:19:11 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"I also believe Termyn8or makes a good point - all this fuss over denying something so gargantuan, so horrific and so well evidenced may well serve the denial better than the truth. "

So Dear, do you accept it or at least admit the possiblitiy of some untruth on the official version, or is that too horrific for your mind ? If not, don't go to Germany anymore.

T


Some believe the government story on the Arabs.  "Collateral damage".   Does anyone see the irony here?

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:48:38 PM   
Seatonstomb


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Just remember it was the catholic church that started the (first) holocaust. Sometimes called the first crusade - on the way to the holy land crusaders went round Europe killing Jews for their part in the death of the Nazarene.

Just remember Catholics/Christians coined the phrase "Kill them all, God will know his own" when crusaders against "Good Men and Good Women" reached a town where there were both "Good Men and Good Women" and Romish Christians. It was the papal legates order.

Good Men and Good Women aka Cathars

Nick


< Message edited by Seatonstomb -- 4/17/2010 1:50:58 PM >

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:50:10 PM   
Termyn8or


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FR

It is time.

Now you've done it and hopefully this post doesn't get pulled. I am not a denier but there are some problems with the official version.

Here was the situation, first of all six million known Jewish bodies were found, despite the fact that we are all the same under the skin (which was probably missing for the lampshade industry). If the Nazis actually killed six million, OK. The Nazis killed every Jew they could find, wherever. And only Jews. They didn't kill anyone else but Jews. What's more the Russians did no "cleansing" at the end of the war and layed the blame on the Nazis. It was all the Nazis, including the Katyn forest massacre.

The Nazis were purely racist, and the torture of those who had to give up their gold teeth and Swiss bank accounts were persecuted solely on the basis of race, IN A COUNTRY IN WHICH YOU NEEDED A WHEELBARREL FULL OF MONEY TO BUY A POSTAGE STAMP.

And somehow, Hitler, a great Corporal engineered WW1 somehow in his youth to create the conditions that led to his usurption of power without any public support. Apparently he himself instigated krystallnact by hypnotism or something, and the people somehow enjoyed the violence so much they supported Hitler to conquer the world. They would have been goosestepping on American soil in months if we hadn't bombed Japan and Russia didn't keep them busy. Only the Devil himself could cause a war to start when he was just coming of age.

Do I have all this right now ? Please advise.

T

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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 1:52:51 PM   
pahunkboy


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Term,

Russia has quite a blood soaked history.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 2:04:40 PM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"I also believe Termyn8or makes a good point - all this fuss over denying something so gargantuan, so horrific and so well evidenced may well serve the denial better than the truth. "

So Dear, do you accept it or at least admit the possiblitiy of some untruth on the official version, or is that too horrific for your mind ? If not, don't go to Germany anymore.

T


No "dear" what I said was that given that the genocide was and remains so eminently proven, it may fuel the "denial-conspiracy" theorists' imagination to a degree unintended by the purposes of the law.

The only discussion to be had as regards the mass murder of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, psychiatric patients, the disabled and various others may be one centred on the proportion killed by which specific means, though the value of such a discussion is debatable in itself.

And by the way, I have been to and shall continue to go to Germany, where I shall respect their laws for the duration of my visit, as I should expect anyone coming here to respect our laws - wherein incidentally, one may question the genocide if one should feel sufficiently daft to believe it never happened or was some gargantuan hoax and conspiracy, and be free to receive whatever degree of ridicule follows from it.

E


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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: German court fines British bishop for Holocaust denial - 4/17/2010 2:07:14 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
No "dear" what I said was that given that the genocide was and remains so eminently proven, it may fuel the "denial-conspiracy" theorists' imagination to a degree unintended by the purposes of the law.


really?

you mean like the sign in front of auschwitz that used to say 4 million and now says 1.5 million?

Just a minor error ya think?

you call that proven?  It will go down more yet in the coming years.

Um when its politically feasable


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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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(in reply to LadyEllen)
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