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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 8:03:33 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Do feel free to start another thread about whether US soldiers are "ours" or not, and whether individual citizens of the US can claim no part of the actions of our country. I don't think the original subject is quite used up here.



Actually, I was only interested in what you were referring to.

I won’t delay you any longer…


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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/25/2010 9:28:08 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		And the New York Times is weighing in...

In a way, the muzzling of “South Park” is no more disquieting than any other example of Western institutions’ cowering before the threat of Islamist violence. It’s no worse than the German opera house that temporarily suspended performances of Mozart’s opera “Idomeneo” because it included a scene featuring Muhammad’s severed head. Or Random House’s decision to cancel the publication of a novel about the prophet’s third wife. Or Yale University Press’s refusal to publish the controversial Danish cartoons ... in a book about the Danish cartoon crisis. Or the fact that various Western journalists, intellectuals and politicians — the list includes Oriana Fallaci in Italy, Michel Houellebecq in France, Mark Steyn in Canada and Geert Wilders in the Netherlands — have been hauled before courts and “human rights” tribunals, in supposedly liberal societies, for daring to give offense to Islam.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/opinion/26douthat.html

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/26/2010 9:32:00 AM   
xbrand


Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Well, let me say this, on that' wannabe' too, you are totally offbase......now, my remark was made to the Podunkit guy who stated he was tired of Germany being made to pay reparations...My remark, was in all a mocking , to point out...
accountability for one's actions. The nazi thing is still being debated in the courts today, it's not over for those who would like to forgive and ...'let it be forgotten; it was oh so many years ago."

Podunkit's post was off topic, and I bit on it, sorry about that.

A nazi or 'wannabe' nazi...I AM NOT...the only think worse than being called a nazi, is being called a republican.

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/26/2010 9:44:29 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		If youre saying that what you posted was in jest, at the expense of those ridiculous enough to deny the genocide, then I apologise. That was not how it came across at all. Nevertheless I accept I may misread intent where it is not adequately conveyed and refer to the medium of comunication as being here often deficient in such regard.

So, given that you confirm your belief that the nazis committed a monumental and industrial scale genocide, let us leave it at that a proceed.

E

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/26/2010 10:09:15 AM   
xbrand


Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Hi Phoenix, First off, realize 'Free Speech' is a concept...and only that, a theory, nothing more. In theory you are allowed to speak out against...'whatever' and 'whoever'....but one must be prepared for the fall-out. Speak out against a government......you may be arrested, imprisoned, executed, murdered, or just plain disappear.....but you had the right of 'free speech'. It has happened all through history in every country. Just because countries agree to a "Free Speech Accord'...in principal, it shows they are appearing as "understanding the social human condition.'...in reality,..... it means nothing.

Speak out against anyone, and give 'intended' offense....be prepared for the fall-out....the offended party may just...kill you.... just threaten you...yell back.....who knows.

This group exercising their 'free Speech'; and warned the South Park....told them to shut up....we don't like the mockery.... why is it an issue? Why were they tromped on by the authorities? Nothing happened, they were exercising their 'Free Speech'....as well.

Because of the objections to the Bush regime, which was becoming an annoyance, to silence the protesters, his regime allocated certain areas as 'Free Speech Zones'....ie, if his motorcade was driving on 53rd ave, the zone was set up on 149th street....therein you can protest to your hearts desire. The cameras were only focused on the supporters at 53rd.

It's a concept, nothing more.

As for your GOD thingie....A nazi sits on the throne of St. Peter.....he is the Vicar of Christ......God does not speak to anyone, .....supposedly...only through men.....supposedly, through the authority of God on Earth, the Vicar of Christ. He's a nazi for 'christ's sake'....opps, a pun.


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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/26/2010 2:16:14 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		He's an ex Nazi, actually: just like Eichmann and Mengele. I don't think he's practised as a Nazi for a long time now. It isn't like he's Nick Griffin, is it?

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/26/2010 6:00:45 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

And the New York Times is weighing in...

In a way, the muzzling of “South Park” is no more disquieting than any other example of Western institutions’ cowering before the threat of Islamist violence. It’s no worse than the German opera house that temporarily suspended performances of Mozart’s opera “Idomeneo” because it included a scene featuring Muhammad’s severed head. Or Random House’s decision to cancel the publication of a novel about the prophet’s third wife. Or Yale University Press’s refusal to publish the controversial Danish cartoons ... in a book about the Danish cartoon crisis. Or the fact that various Western journalists, intellectuals and politicians — the list includes Oriana Fallaci in Italy, Michel Houellebecq in France, Mark Steyn in Canada and Geert Wilders in the Netherlands — have been hauled before courts and “human rights” tribunals, in supposedly liberal societies, for daring to give offense to Islam.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/opinion/26douthat.html



Well, "intellectuals" aren't exactly known for having ,....."balls."
If they felt threatened they should have armed themselves. Boy, I'll never watch that show again! "The show that *folded* to terrorists!" How will they be able to live with themselves? Every morning they'll have to look at themselves in the mirror.
People will be making jokes about them! "Pussy!"

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/26/2010 6:08:22 PM   
xbrand


Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Ex nazi ???? He and his brother joined the catholic church, to hide, after the fall. They both excelled to office, had their records exponged, no trace of their records exist save for them joining and what they could not hide. They created their pown history. They all....ALL denied they were nazis..... I didn't know.....so what's your point?

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/26/2010 6:12:46 PM   
xbrand


Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Saving face ?????? Apology was like pulling teeth for you? You know very well, it was a mockery at Podunkie's comment, yes, no one held accountable, Hell, why not make one POPE.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/26/2010 6:17:57 PM   
xbrand


Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		The show wasn't worth watching in the first place. So, you would rather see innocent blood on the pavement than just drop the episode...yeah, as long as it's not your blood. The suits caved in, saved a lot of havoc, maybe, it was irresponsible to air the crap in the first place....but not to you.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/26/2010 6:21:13 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xbrand

The show wasn't worth watching in the first place. So, you would rather see innocent blood on the pavement than just drop the episode...yeah, as long as it's not your blood. The suits caved in, saved a lot of havoc, maybe, it was irresponsible to air the crap in the first place....but not to you.


Boy, that's quite the reply there Twisty!

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/27/2010 5:01:48 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xbrand

Ex nazi ???? He and his brother joined the catholic church, to hide, after the fall. They both excelled to office, had their records exponged, no trace of their records exist save for them joining and what they could not hide. They created their pown history. They all....ALL denied they were nazis..... I didn't know.....so what's your point?

My point is that he's wearing a different uniform and citing a different excuse for his autocracy, these days.

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/27/2010 6:14:49 AM   
taleon


Posts: 48
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xbrand

The show wasn't worth watching in the first place.

In your opinion.

quote:

So, you would rather see innocent blood on the pavement than just drop the episode...yeah, as long as it's not your blood.

It could very well be my blood. Or your blood. Maybe some nut will detonate a bomb in my street because he felt provoked by a cartoon. Nevertheless, I don't think we solve this problem by muting anyone who wants to mock a sensitive issue. Rather, we should solve it by addressing those who want to use deadly violence as a legitimate tactic to get their point across.

quote:

The suits caved in, saved a lot of havoc, maybe, it was irresponsible to air the crap in the first place....but not to you.

And where does it end? What if the stuff you value becomes an insult to some fundamentalist?

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/27/2010 8:29:56 AM   
xbrand


Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Yup, you got it; and now, he speaks for God.

When he was first 'appointed' he made a pilgrimage to his home town, a sort of victory celebration, I suppose. Some people painted swatikas all over the house he was born in. Silly people, some just don't want to forgive and forget, the nerve, holding a grudge.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/27/2010 9:06:08 AM   
xbrand


Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Yes, in my opinion, am I not allowed an opinion?, am I not allowed to digress from your opinion?

So, these Big M. worshipers are busy about their worshiping, along comes a western TV show and pokes fun at them. The Big M. guys don't like it, never have liked anyone poking fun or even mentioning Big M. in a slanderous tone, known worldwide as non tolerant of such slander. Given the world as it is, sitting on a 'powder-keg, as it were, religious, cultural, custom differences being strained to piano-string tightness. The South Park crew, caring only for the green in syndication, decides to throw some flames on the keg, and shake the piano-string.

Smart move, eh. Irresponsible at the very least was their airing of the offending programs. Who knows what the ongoing insults from the S.P.crew may have resulted and escalated into....a Holy War, maybe; some bodies being made dead, property destroyed? who knows. The Big M. guys don't like the insults, they let it be known, so...why bother them?

But you and your Poppy-eyed buddies think it's A-OK, ...let loose the dogs of war....er, so long as your lap-dog is not in the war...and you can watch as mayhem hits the boob-tube from your comfy couch, beer in hand.

Where will it end? Hopefully with no more gratuitous insulting programing such as S.P. exhibits.

This is not a 'Free Speech' issue......it's a responsibility/irresponsibility in programing issue.








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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/27/2010 10:17:27 AM   
taleon


Posts: 48
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xbrand

Yes, in my opinion, am I not allowed an opinion?, am I not allowed to digress from your opinion?

Of course you are allowed an opinion. That's the whole point! Vis-a-vis me you can have any opinion, and you can rest assured that I'll not pick up a sword to silence you.

quote:

So, these Big M. worshipers are busy about their worshiping, along comes a western TV show and pokes fun at them. The Big M. guys don't like it, never have liked anyone poking fun or even mentioning Big M. in a slanderous tone, known worldwide as non tolerant of such slander. Given the world as it is, sitting on a 'powder-keg, as it were, religious, cultural, custom differences being strained to piano-string tightness. The South Park crew, caring only for the green in syndication, decides to throw some flames on the keg, and shake the piano-string.

I wouldn't presume to know what Muslims collectively think. However, if I were pressed to make a guess, I would say that the vast majority probably doesn't give a fuck about South Park. Most of them probably have families to care for, a business to manage, or a job to do. They surely have better things to do than to feel offended by a couple of guys making a cartoon. As far as I can see, it's only a bunch of power hungry wannabe leaders and a group of zealots willing to use violence who are willing to blow this up into a violent confrontation (pun unintended). I'm not marginalizing it, as those groups can do a lot of damage... but I don't think we are talking about entire countries here. And I don't think that we should be censored, or apply self-censorship, to please a few extremists willing to use terror to curb our freedom.

quote:

Smart move, eh. Irresponsible at the very least was their airing of the offending programs. Who knows what the ongoing insults from the S.P.crew may have resulted and escalated into....a Holy War, maybe; some bodies being made dead, property destroyed? who knows. The Big M. guys don't like the insults, they let it be known, so...why bother them?

You do know that a few of those devout believers probably wouldn't think too highly of CollarMe either, don't you? Yet, you do dare to offend them by being on this site? How odd.

quote:


This is not a 'Free Speech' issue......it's a responsibility/irresponsibility in programing issue.

Who gets to decide what is responsible or not? I, for one, don't think it is responsible to signal to the rest of the world (and future generations) that, apparently, the only thing you need to do to cower us into submission is to act really nutty and really violently.

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/27/2010 10:37:15 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I don't have time at the moment to read all of this, but let Me get this straight.....

It was ok to rip on every other religion on the planet, but now because it's Mohammad in a bear costume, that's enough for censorship?  Jesus has been a recurring toon on the show since it's beginning.  Scientology got special attention in a couple of episodes.  Ripping on Kyle for being Jewish has been a running gag of the show since it started.  Mormons have taken their licks.  God was drawn as some kind of four legged creature with various animal characteristics.  Satan's been made to look like a pussy holding luaus in hell.

But now, literally after years of this show being on the air, now we're supposed to censor.

To quote Stan Marsh, "You know, I learned something today.  Either it's all ok to laugh at, or none of it is."


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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/27/2010 11:31:56 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		I agree completely with you LP.
The problem is....people are all gung ho for free speech until someone crosses their personal line and they find a joke offensive.
It happens on this site all of the time.
I personally got blasted for making Anne Frank, Michael Jackson, dead baby, Chinese food/cat jokes. (Fuck...I'm a rude little wench )
It amazed me that words on a website or a tv show could have so much power over someone.

It's not free speech if you only support it when it isn't offensive to you.


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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/27/2010 11:43:22 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

I agree completely with you LP.
The problem is....people are all gung ho for free speech until someone crosses their personal line and they find a joke offensive.
It happens on this site all of the time.
I personally got blasted for making Anne Frank, Michael Jackson, dead baby, Chinese food/cat jokes. (Fuck...I'm a rude little wench )
It amazed me that words on a website or a tv show could have so much power over someone.

It's not free speech if you only support it when it isn't offensive to you.



Aileen, well said! You rude little wench!
You too LP!
Sometimes our rights, which many take for granted, need to be defended.
Those "suits" on that show folded like Pussys! I'll say it again, they should have armed themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/27/2010 11:48:20 AM   
xbrand


Posts: 95
Joined: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Well Taleon, I agree that this mostly is a group of wannabe leaders, and not a country nor the entire sect. They want, are looking for, ANY reason to throw the world into a bloody conflict. Drag the rest of their guys with it, they don't care. Nut cases are everywhere.

Responsibility ...ah yes.....the program chiefs, review each show piror to being aired, every network, media business, any business for that matter, reviews and edits what is proposed to be presented to the public. S.P. KNEW that these episodes would cause a stir...so they decided to ...GO, send it up the flagpole and see who salutes.

Someone saluted, and the suits recanted their decision to go...to keep this group from stirring the pot further, taking action that would possibly harm people and destroy property. So hateful must have been the salute.

You all claim it was coward to bow to the threats of this group. S.P. got what they wanted, noticed, publicity......it's called marketing. Now people are talking about the show, reviving the popularity, selling more toys, figurines, etc. It was a calculated ploy. However...the ploy COULD have brought dire results.....but what the hell, the results...if it makes money. Right.

And for what...a trash TV show, poorly, really poorly animated.....people could have died because of S.P's little game.


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Profile   Post #: 100
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