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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 12:45:46 AM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Looking forward to the DVD release - no censorship there :)

But I take the whole thing with a grain or two of salt. Matt & Trey are nothing if not brilliant manipulators of the system. Their typicl MO is to wait until the very last minute to hand-over each new episode so that Comedy Central does not have time to preview it. That may have changed but I prefer to think that they put the black boxes and beeps in from the start to make a mockery of this sort of censorship.

For all those who did not actually see Episode 201, they never tried to portray Mohammed. At first, he was in the back of a truck where no one could see him. Then they claimed he was inside a bear costume, again so no one could see him. When they removed the bear suit it was actualy Santa Clause so that at not point did they attempt to actually draw an image of the (alleged) prophet.

As for the beeping, I think that was also planned. Initially, they only beep the word "Mohammed". But as the story progressed they beeped the words on either side and then the entire sentance, finally ending up by beeping the entire conversation.

For me, this worked on a while different level of parody. Instead of attacking Muslims, Matt and Trey were attacking the spineless executives who live in fear of each and every critical letter/e-mail - the ones who keep paying them the truckloads of money to crank-out yet another season.

Of course your mileage may vary.

~Dave

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 7:20:00 AM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		So then what you are saying, Dave, is that the creators of the show are lying when they say it wasn't a "meta-joke," and that the suits at Cowardly Central must think it is good for their corporate image to be accused of censoring a show that was aired as delivered?

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 8:30:31 AM   
Apocalypso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Second, "the suits" as you call them bowed to the intimidation of veiled death threats which will only encourage more of the same now that they have been successful in censoring what they perceive as offensive.


As opposing to bowing to the more common place bowing to the intimidation of advertiser pressure? Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favour of censorship. But the idea that the media corporations are some kind of free speech warriors seems somewhat unsupported, to say the least.

On this, it's not actually that daring. The places where this would have been shown are not ones where Muslims have a lot of political power. (By that benchmark, the Dixie Chicks were far more courageous, because they actually stood up to the powerful). Yes, people have a right to take potshots at the already marginalised. But there's nothing 'brave' about it. If you want satire that's genuinely daring on this subject, watch the new Chris Morris movie instead.

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 2:01:41 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

Yes, people have a right to take potshots at the already marginalised. But there's nothing 'brave' about it.



You're making me laugh here, Apoc. You're running around with a South Park style avatar and talking as of you've never watched the show, or seen any of the other work beyond "Baseketball."

Everybody has been fair game, including the cultural power structure in their own industry.

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 2:09:05 PM   
Apocalypso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic



You're making me laugh here, Apoc. You're running around with a South Park style avatar and talking as of you've never watched the show, or seen any of the other work beyond "Baseketball."

Everybody has been fair game, including the cultural power structure in their own industry.

I watch it because I find it funny. I never said I disliked it as a show. I just don't think it's as groundbreaking and dangerous as a lot of people seem to think. (And they do have their own ideology. They're undoubtably libertarians. Which is fine. I'm actually interested in why the funniest people from the right always seem to be from that particular perspective. PJ O'Rourke is another one I like, despite disagreeing with his politics. But it's not a politically neutral show that takes potshots at everything equally.).

To give you an example of what I mean, this is far more daring than anything that South Park have done. And it got real outrage. The tabloids went off it. Condemnation from government ministers. South Park have never ruffled feathers that much.

_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 3:38:53 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Perhaps that runs funny in a country without the stones to just execute the fuckers, but I found it pretty lame, Apoc.



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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 3:47:23 PM   
Elisabella


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The most amusing thing about this is that the guy who made the death threats is a white American who was a goth kid and Satanist in high school.

Radical Muslim beheadings = the Columbine of the new millennium.

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 3:58:12 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Radical Muslim beheadings = the Columbine of the new millennium.


How do you equate the two events ? Neither have anything to do with each other in any way shape or form, it just seems a lame attempt to demonise all Muslims.

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 4:00:22 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		And it does seem that the media has outed him to the neighbors.



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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 4:01:31 PM   
Elisabella


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Radical Muslim beheadings = the Columbine of the new millennium.


How do you equate the two events ? Neither have anything to do with each other in any way shape or form, it just seems a lame attempt to demonise all Muslims.


Yeah because "radical" is a synonym of "all" in my thesaurus too

My point was that the guy who made the death threats was an angry disaffected loner in school and it seems that embracing radical fundamentalist Islam is a new way to say "fuck the system" instead of, you know, actually working to improve the system.

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 4:07:34 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Elisabella, I get where you are coming from and apologise for my post.

On the point in question. I dont see it being very helpful having shows like this while allied troops are fighting in Muslim countries.

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 5:05:22 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		It's what we tell them they are fighting for.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 5:06:53 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It's what we tell them they are fighting for.


Who is we?

Kim

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 5:08:55 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 4/24/2010 5:10:11 PM >

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 5:10:18 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It's what we tell them they are fighting for.


Who is we?

Kim


We in the collective sense, Kim. Do I need to put out a code "turd in the punchbowl?"



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 5:12:22 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

We in the collective sense, Kim.


I understood that; I'm asking, which collective?

quote:

Do I need to put out a code "turd in the punchbowl?"


Come again?

Kim


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Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 5:17:53 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		He said/she said.
Just because Matt & Trey say they're all PO'd with Comedy Central/Viacom, well, it wouldn't be the 1st time they tried to put one over.

Either way, doesn't matter much to me. The "un-censored" version - whatever it may turn out to be - will come out on DVD and will probably be "leaked" wiithin the next couple of weeks.

What does bother me is that all of this is over exactly 1 threat from exactly 1 dipshit in NYC. A kid who wasn't even smart enough to leep his web site from being hacked. Oh the irony of it all!

~Dave

_____________________________

He said I'd blown a seal. I said fix the damn thing and leave my private life out of this!
What happens in the event horizon STAYS in the Event Horizon!
I have zero tolerance for Zero Tolerance

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 5:33:54 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69


Come again?

Kim




That's normally a question I ask, Kim.

It's a reference from the show, which contained a point. Obviously, you missed both.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 5:42:18 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


It's a reference from the show, which contained a point. Obviously, you missed both.



I did mention I don't watch the show. It would be a regression for me. Not to mention the high pitched voices, yelling, and talking so fast it is difficult to understand, is an assult to my senses.

If you can't just say it, I'll understand.

quote:

That's normally a question I ask, Kim.


I didn't know.

Kim

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Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

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RE: Free Speech on "South Park"? - 4/24/2010 5:55:42 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		It has been my experience, Kim, that the only larger waste of time than telling a joke to someone who doesn't get jokes, is then trying to explain it to them.

The reference was to the lies we tell as part of the great social compact. Do feel free to start another thread about whether US soldiers are "ours" or not, and whether individual citizens of the US can claim no part of the actions of our country. I don't think the original subject is quite used up here.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 80
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