Losing the privilege... whatever that means

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sunshinemiss -> Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 2:03:18 AM)
Hi everybody, quote: Master actually took my collar away for a long time because He didnt think i was worthy of wearing it. He didnt think i understood the significance or what it represented. i am happy to say that i did improve and was able to earn back the priviledge of wearing it once again. So I saw this quote ... and it made me think... How does one do something that makes them have to "improve" and "earn back the privilege" of wearing a collar? I mean, to me that seems like there's a "Master" out there somewhere who doesn't know how to lead, doesn't understand about improvement rather than perfection, or perhaps didn't know the reality of the woman in the first place. Either you're together or you're not. If she didn't understand the significance or what it represented, then maybe he needed to make sure she did before he put it on her. If she was slipping in her behavior, isn't it his responsibility to get her back on track? To me this smacks of a Domly type not fulfilling the responsibilities that are inherent as the leader of the relationship. It seems like someone who has decided to shift the blame. Am I way off base here? Can somebody explain this to me? best, sunshine

Focus50 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 2:55:58 AM)
I just don't like the sound of a collar that's there one minute and gone the next. You either own her or you don't - it's not what I'd regard as a conditional variable. The quote is from someone's profile? Newbie's perhaps? Focus.

bondmaid123 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 3:15:36 AM)
I am not a fan of this concept, either. Once the collar is there, I would think there would be ~other~ methods of re-centering the submissive/slave. I think that the use of collars has been drastically watered down which leads to this sort of weird manipulative behaviour even making sense to somebody. If you're "the boss of me", that makes you a leader, with all the incumbent rights and responsibilities, eh? I suppose it's easier to say "Never mind, I don't want to have to work at this" but then what does that say about the strength of the relationship, with or without the pretty neck jewelry? But that's just me, I suppose.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 3:39:54 AM)
Sounds like a whole lotta drama to me. First of all, who posts that kind of personal stuff on their profile or webpage or anything public on the web? Those are the inner workings of their relationship. Did they not make the cut for the local day time talk show or reality show and really need the attention that badly? Seriously, people need to learn to stop airing out their dirty laundry. Ok, so adding to your diagnosis, I'd say there is a likelihood of passive aggressive and co-dependant behaviour in that too. But enough about them. Why do you care about what they are doing, sunshine? I'm sure this isn't the first time you saw less than exceptional behaviour here. - LA

Aileen1968 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 3:45:03 AM)
I read that too and it struck me as someone that likes to make their submissive jump through hoops just to make themselves feel more domly. It dangles that feeling of "one more strike and you're out" over the submissive's head. I would walk away from someone like that. I need stability and rational thinking in my relationship.

loverly -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 3:57:00 AM)
IMO it wouldnt promote a secure feeling or help with any insecurities i had thats for sure! and i find it VERY SAD! that someone would do that to another who would give their heart to another for safekeeping. i would be confused and my wall would be be jerking up and down! NOT a loving nurturing relationship at all that was promoting trust. [sm=marionette.gif]

sunshinemiss -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 4:02:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Sounds like a whole lotta drama to me. But enough about them. Why do you care about what they are doing, sunshine? I'm sure this isn't the first time you saw less than exceptional behaviour here. - LA Hello LA, I like to understand people, how they work, what is going on. I have been foolish a time or twelve in my life. This particular post (on the message boards, by the way) resonated with me somehow. I tend to have pretty high expectations of the domly types, and sometimes I wonder if they are too high. Best, sunshine

LadyAngelika -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 4:13:02 AM)
quote: I tend to have pretty high expectations of the domly types, and sometimes I wonder if they are too high. I could say the same thing, but of people in general, not just the Domly types (I'm curious as to why your expectations for Domly types are higher). But I learned a long time ago that the best way to ensure that I'm going to be disappointed is to have expectations about people. I tend accept people at face value and am quite picky about who I let into my personal space. I ensure that I live by my own standards and engage in personal relationships with people who have similar standards. That said, I can understand how a message board post can erk you. And I can understand wanting to know how people work as well. I guess for me sometimes some people's reasoning is so far removed from my own that I can't even relate, such as is the case with the example in your OP. - LA

barelynangel -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 4:15:17 AM)
Well, what this board is infamous for is many people do what they do and there is no one "true" way -- sorry spelling it wrong to me is just silly. To me this thread seems more needful of judging a third party based upon a paragraph posted by someone rather than knowing people. How can you KNOW this person at all, he didn't post nor has he offered any information. All you will know is the judgments against him by other people -- i fail to see how you can KNOW anyone if all they are doing is judging a person who was part of a third party recitation of something they did. But its really hard to me to tell from one small paragraph about a whole relationship and since its only posted by one person of the pair its probably not enough information to accurately determine what happened on BOTH sides of the relationship. The quoted material while may not be right for many, seemed to have worked for this pair according to the quote. I don't agree with what he did because to me a collar is a symbol of what exists and to take a collar away because they aren't worthy implies to me that he is removing his determination to own her and that to me signals an end of the relationship. However, it appears he explained it to her in such a way wherein instead of her seeing it as the end of the relationship she saw it as a concept of helping her strive to reach and maintain his expectations and standards. BUt it wouldn't work FOR ME, but it seemed to work for them. Seeing that its not anyone's dom but this one posters, and whatever occured seemed to work as she did eventually get it back -- to make this a ohhh look at this bad Dom concept is silly and kinda desperate to judge others on VERY VERY little information. I could see posting a judgment which many do on a thread that actually has the PERSON in the relationship saying what she did, but to pull out and start a new thread to try and say what a BAD guy he is -- is not cool. I think its rude to take someone's words and single them out for the only reason to judge a third party mentioned in the quote. This subject could have easily been made a thread without ever signaling anyone out on a personal level, which this did. All the OP had to say was i have come across this notion of late wherein doms take away a collar because of the girls behavior because he feels she is no longer worthy of wearing it, and he sets the stage wherein she can earn it back and does. Thoughts? BUt instead i guess it was more fun to use what someone posted on the boards so people are judging the Man of which they don't know anything about but a small paragraph on a message board. I also agree that posting specifics of your relationship is NOT cool on a public forum due to threads like this -- people take a little bit of information and decide to make a character call on the Dom who hasn't stated anything regarding the incident. Relationship happenings should remain in the relationship and this thread to me is a major example why -- people will judge based on one-sided and very little information of the whole. I think people would be more apt to judge the poster and the actions of same instead of a third party not here to explain or expound the other half of the perception. angel

sunshinemiss -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 4:24:35 AM)
Hello angel, You may recall from my OP that I said, "Can somebody explain this to me?" At no point did I say they were wrong. I said that TO ME it smacks of blame shifting. However, there are any number of domly types who have done this. I was HOPING one of them would explain. I am open to hearing another person's point of view - that's why I started the thread after all. The point is NOT for everyone to say "oh that's bad"... it's a request for understanding. Best, sunshine

barelynangel -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 4:31:51 AM)
Sunshine, people aren't stupid. Your motive for starting this thread seems to be well seen. Also, you are NOT ignorant of this subject as this was not the first time its been posted over the years. And your own words BELOW the quote its clear its a hey let's judge this guy badly thread. if you really were ignorant of the concept, you would have stopped at can anyone explain this to me or you could have asked the girl to have her Mster post his view. Your own words below the quote makes your assessment of the MAN in the quote personal. Yeah, you didn't want it to be a judgment thread -- we all see that! You could have easily posted this thread in a question rather than using a quote from someone on the boards and continued on to speak as it seems about the MAN in the quote. angel

sunshinemiss -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 4:34:53 AM)
Hi Angelika, quote: I could say the same thing, but of people in general, not just the Domly types (I'm curious as to why your expectations for Domly types are higher). My expectations for them are not higher... just different. I too have pretty darned high expectations of people! I wonder if my expectations are wrong... do I expect perfection? This is why I put the question out... to get an understanding of something that is different from my own, to compare it. To figure it out maybe? Best, sunshine

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 4:43:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss At no point did I say they were wrong. I said that TO ME it smacks of blame shifting. C'mon, Sunshine-do you really think that putting the words 'to me' in front of a judgement makes it any less of a judgement? You don't know what a collar does represent to this Dom-his reason to give out a collar may well be something completely unrecognisable from another Dom's reason. You've never heard of a couple calling off an engagement or a wedding until the relationship is in a more stable place? The events are also filtered through the girl's word choices and perceptions. She uses the words 'earn' and 'improve'-that doesn't necessarily mean that those are the words he chose. It might be that he said something different, but that she perceives it as her responsibility (rather than a shared one) to return to a situation where he wishes to collar her, and she perceives that situation as desirable, and so she uses to word 'earn'. Way too many unknowns for you to be justified in accusing anyone of blame shifting.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 4:45:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Sunshine, people aren't stupid. Your motive for starting this thread seems to be well seen. Also, you are NOT ignorant of this subject as this was not the first time its been posted over the years. Of course it has been posted before, angel. However, life is not static, opinions are not static. People grow and evolve. I'm no exception to that. quote: And your own words BELOW the quote its clear its a hey let's judge this guy badly thread. Yep, I don't agree with what is put in that quote. I also am open to understanding. It's possible to have two opposite feelings and thoughts at the same time. quote: if you really were ignorant of the concept, you would have stopped at can anyone explain this to me or you could have asked the girl to have her Mster post his view. You could have easily posted this thread in a question rather than using a quote from someone on the boards and continued on to speak as it seems about the MAN in the quote. Luckily, I can post the way I want to. (eta: within the TOS guidelines of course) Best, sunshine

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 4:54:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Sunshine, people aren't stupid. Your motive for starting this thread seems to be well seen. Also, you are NOT ignorant of this subject as this was not the first time its been posted over the years. And your own words BELOW the quote its clear its a hey let's judge this guy badly thread. if you really were ignorant of the concept, you would have stopped at can anyone explain this to me or you could have asked the girl to have her Mster post his view. Your own words below the quote makes your assessment of the MAN in the quote personal. Yeah, you didn't want it to be a judgment thread -- we all see that! You could have easily posted this thread in a question rather than using a quote from someone on the boards and continued on to speak as it seems about the MAN in the quote. angel The judger judging judgment. How ironic.

subsfaith -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 4:58:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss I mean, to me that seems like there's a "Master" out there somewhere who doesn't know how to lead, doesn't understand about improvement rather than perfection, or perhaps didn't know the reality of the woman in the first place. Either you're together or you're not. If she didn't understand the significance or what it represented, then maybe he needed to make sure she did before he put it on her. If she was slipping in her behavior, isn't it his responsibility to get her back on track? To me this smacks of a Domly type not fulfilling the responsibilities that are inherent as the leader of the relationship. It seems like someone who has decided to shift the blame. Am I way off base here? Can somebody explain this to me? Hi sunshine, I get your point, however, on such limited information it would be remiss to make value statements. But if you look closely, all the information is actually there. We know by her admission, the removal of her collar caused a change and her behaviour improved. So has he failed? Sounds to me like he achieved what he wanted, therefore I would say he was leading quite successfully, despite the 'extreme' technique he used. I don't believe I have ever seen a relationship fail because of just one person. Both people are responsible regardless of dynamic. If a dom is leading, but a sub makes the decision to follow, who has failed... well I think both of them have failed. Not everything is about blame. Blame is incredibly destructive and can easily kill a relationship. I am sure we can all think back to situations where we have blamed another person and if we are totally honest, we can see a way of doing things differently that would have changed the outcome entirely. Faith

Level -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 5:01:44 AM)
quote: faith: on such limited information it would be remiss to make value statements. But if you look closely, all the information is actually there. We know by her admission, the removal of her collar caused a change and her behaviour improved. So has he failed? Sounds to me like he achieved what he wanted, therefore I would say he was leading quite successfully, despite the 'extreme' technique he used. I agree with this. And, as LA mentioned, the smell of drama in removing the collar may indeed be there, but without knowing the people involved, it's hard to say.

sunshinemiss -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 5:06:08 AM)
Hi Faith... I totally get what you are saying about blame. However, (as much as I hate to use the word) responsibility is pretty danged important. In every relationship I've had, I absolutely have had my own slice of responsibility of its demise. Heck, sometimes it was TOTALLY my fault. Part of what is smacking for me (and I appreciate the patience as I work this through) is the word "worthy". That's one of those words... I worked with a woman once whose big issue was being "worthy"... Of course I've worked with others with the same issue, had / have it myself, but this woman was so clear about it. I remember saying to her, "I see you as worthy" in an exercise, and she just fell apart. It was an amazing moment for her. She changed her life when she embraced her worthiness. Yeah, sometimes even in the best of relationships, with the best people, things fail. It isn't a fault thing... sometimes it's just - I don't know - the planets in alignment, chemistry, timing, something... quote: We know by her admission, the removal of her collar caused a change and her behaviour improved. So has he failed? Sounds to me like he achieved what he wanted, therefore I would say he was leading quite successfully, despite the 'extreme' technique he used. That is an interesting point... I'm going to have to think on it. Thank you for that. And hey - is that coffee in that cup? And can I have some? Best, sunshine

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 5:11:11 AM)
How about we call this hypothetical? I dont think Sunny is poking at ANY individual. But if I hear about someone removing a collar I think the Dom and sub have issues and the Dominant is not handling it appropriately or perhaps He lost control anyway so its best he removes the collar. The sub may be acting out or maybe shes just unhappy . If she has to live with the insecurity of having a collar removed for any infraction perhaps she could then feel free to leave?

Level -> RE: Losing the privilege... whatever that means (4/23/2010 5:12:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss do I expect perfection? The first thing that came to my mind was your thread about the Kipling poem; I wonder if there is that expectation (from many folks, not just you -- and yes, I include myself in the question!!). Or did I take that thread too seriously? Just a thought, not an attack, my friend.

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