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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/29/2010 10:50:33 PM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
Joined: 11/2/2009
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOWe4-KXqMM&feature=related

George Carlin after Katrina -- same issue, same ridiculous responses, same 'You should have got an education', etc. etc.

The pattern isn't hard to see, if you're objective enough to look.

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Profile   Post #: 261
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/29/2010 10:59:24 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

You benifit from the unpaid labor of slaves...you don't like the word culpable?
What word would you use to describe benifiting from the unpaid labor of slaves?
Is the benifit somehow different if you are not the owner of the slave?
My daddy kills your daddy and steals his house. My daddy is dead and I live in your house and you live in your car. I did not kill your daddy. I did not steal your daddys house. I am sure you hold me no ill will and wish me a long an happy life in your house because I am not culpable of anything.

Wow, you really are an idiot. I thought it was just gossip, lol.
First off, you didn't answer my question in a meaningful way. How is one guilty of a crime that took place 100 years before their birth and that they had nothing to do with? No one that I know of chose to be born, nor did they choose their skin color, socioeconomic status, what country they were born in, who their parents are, or anything else. Do you actually believe that children are born guilty for things that their parents/ grandparents/ great grandparents/ or great great grandparents did? If so, I think most of us are up shit creek one way or another.

That said, if you really want to go down that road, let's just execute the children and grandchildren of everyone on Death Row, shall we? The children and grandchildren are culpable for the crimes committed, after all.... right?

As for your daddy example, it sucked. Let's just make it a bit more real, shall we? Your great-great grand daddy killed my great-great grand daddy and stole his money and his house. 100 years later, while you are living your life, struggling to pay your bills, and going about your business, I show up on your doorstep and tell you that it is MY house and that you have 5 days to get the hell out, and that I am confiscating your bank account as well.
You on board with that?

Regarding culpability, I do have a question for you-
How culpable for slavery is the immigrant who took hir citizenship vows yesterday, last month, or 5 years ago? Per you, those folks benefit (please learn how to spell that word) from unpaid slave labor every day, so how guilty are they? 


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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 3:52:44 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Thane Ethelbert of Stourton was dispossessed of his lands in 1069 by the Normans. He was slain and his wife married off to some Breton piece of shit, whilst his kids were sold as slaves.

Ever since, the descendants of these children have been in dire poverty and suffering the cruellest oppressions and arbitrary treatment. They remained slaves for two centuries after the murder of Ethelbert, and then serfs for another century after that. The Black Death saw them elevated as far as peasants and so their lives of poverty, hardship, subjugation and oppression continued until the mid 1800s when they fled the land owned by the descendant of their ancestor's murderer, which was really their land, and went to work in the horrors of the factories, which were marginally better.

Still, a century after that their descendants were unskilled working class labourers, surviving on a pittance. By this time they were getting education as children, but in all honesty none of them prospered from it because it was understood that they would never escape the life handed to them and it was more important to be working than to have ridiculous aspirations reserved solely for those to whom a better life was an inheritance. An attitude that prevailed until the late 1970s.

Here now in 2010, nearly a thousand years after the murder of Ethelbert and the enslavement of his children, I claim my reparations as their descendant, for the harm suffered by my ancestors for close to a millennium and for the manifest disadvantages I face in life as the child of unskilled working class labourers when, absent the crime perpetrated against my ancestors, I should surely be a landed aristocrat.

I also claim in respect of the damage suffered by ethnic cleansing on the part of the Normans who still to this day own England through their descendants and make my life difficult. I am a stranger in my own land by the criminality of the Normans, and instantly and without cause subject to exclusion from the middle class because of the way I speak - a social crime engineered by the Normans to keep the English down.

I expect to recover at least £10,000,000-00 - in respect of the value in today's money of the lands stolen from Thane Ethelbert, plus another £12,000,000-00 in respect of one thousand years of arbitrary harsh treatment and oppression, being £12,000-00 per annum as the value of wages either unpaid or paid short to my ancestors for unskilled manual labourers.

E

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Profile   Post #: 263
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 4:35:09 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Over the last number of days it has been pointed out time and again that the reparations that anyone is talking about here in the US is not abou monetary renumeration. It simply a matter of prejudice that is inherent in our system against people of color. What you failed to mention was that good ole Thane's decendents were of the ability to get on a boat and sail to America where given the new Constitution and the color of their skin they would have been able to seek their fortune along with many others similar to good ole Thane. That same opportunity would not have been available to my ancestors. The boats flowing from Africa to the Americas were not full of new immigrants destined to settle places like Ohio, Illinois, Nevada, Oregon......No, they were brought here with only on intention. There was no escaping this "mark" of slavery since the color of ones skin is a bit difficult to rub off.

There never has been a real effort to heal the injustices of the past and bring people of color into the mainstream of the American Dream. As this country moves towards the middle of the century the amount of Americans of color will only grow not lessen. There is a real need for the White Majority to come to grips with that. To date, it hasn't been pretty and the Teabag party is just one more manifestation of that struggle. People of color will be the leaders of America for year to come. The question for the white majority now.....do you want us to govern like you do now..or would you rather we govern with a more fair hand. The choice, is yours

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 264
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 6:02:30 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I'm with you on the whole prejudice and discrimination thing - I am merely pointing out the way, once the principle is established, it could run wild. I dont face the same problems as "black" people do in the US, but I do face similar problems for being working class and not talking like I have a plum stuck in my palate. Yes, the ceiling has raised somewhat of late, but the fact remains that it is extremely unlikely that someone from my background will ever get to the top unless they do it in politics (and even there half the parties have no place for me) or I happen to invent the next best thing since sliced bread and make a fortune (and even then I will always be resented).

I'm also with you on the means of any reparation - I made that statement some time back and provided arguments for it. Whilst others may see welfare benefits and healthcare as the solution, I see education and access to justice (publicly funded) to combat the problems through enforcement of the laws and the rights already in place.

E

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Profile   Post #: 265
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 6:08:52 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Ellen, I think that we over here don't appreciate the class system that you have in the UK and how entrenched in life it is. I think that, on the whole, we will change here a lot faster than you will which is a shame. We are relatively young and can adjust ourselves. You've thousands of years of prejudice and discrimination to try and overcome....

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Profile   Post #: 266
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 6:12:51 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		The U.S. doesn't have an institutionalized class system a la Britain.

But if you think we don't have a class system in the U.S., you haven't been paying attention, now or to history.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 7:24:48 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Sure, you are right but from what I know of the British system it is far more ingrained than ours. Our biggest problem is that ours is getting worse not better.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 268
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 9:46:56 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		Things that are done, it is needless to speak about...things that are past, it is needless to blame. ~Confucius

Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame. ~Erica Jong

In my opinion, the best way to eradicate racism in this country is for black people to succeed in spite of it, so that whether someone likes them or not, he cannot fail to respect them.

K.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 9:55:44 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Exactly, Master Kirata.

Despite what many think of her, Oprah is a success story. She isnt successful because she is black, but in spite of it. There are many like her, entertainment, sports, business, science.

To DYB...

You soeak of the "elite white man" not wanting to help the black community. What happened to the rich black man helping his own community? The entertainment industry is full of such men, and women. Are they not helping to elevate their own communities? Im curious as to how you, personally, view this.

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Profile   Post #: 270
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 10:01:42 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

In my opinion, the best way to eradicate racism in this country is for black people to succeed in spite of it, so that whether someone likes them or not, he cannot fail to respect them.


I think the best way to eliminate racism in this country is for people like you to try what the journalist who wrote "Black Like Me" did. Chemically change your skin color and pass for black for a year.

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Profile   Post #: 271
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 10:08:29 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Just as soon as you go through a sex change and become a woman for a year. Sorry, but that idea is silly.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 272
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 10:09:44 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not sure what to think.You went to the trouble of telling us that your daddy killed her daddy....then the next thing any of us know you state your daddy's dead and your living in her house.
See how I could be confused.....lol.


So you were thinking "like father like son"...
Gee mikey that never happens in real life. Why would you think I hooked pops up with the syphiletic hooker.
The Che T shirt and the Mcgovern pin I can explane I accidently washed all of his T shirts that day and he had to borrow one of mine. The button on his trousers ACCIDENTLY broke off when I took them out of the dryer.
The "free drinks" pass at the C man's favorite bar I just happened to find and it was on the kitchen counter where he just happened to find it.
Sheesh dude what sort of person do you think I am

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Profile   Post #: 273
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 10:13:11 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Just as soon as you go through a sex change and become a woman for a year. Sorry, but that idea is silly.


I have no idea what this is in reference to.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 10:16:30 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		In reference to this...

quote:

I think the best way to eliminate racism in this country is for people like you to try what the journalist who wrote "Black Like Me" did. Chemically change your skin color and pass for black for a year.


Can you suggest another way to eliminate sexism in this country? If it works for races, surely it works for the sexes as well.

Changing your color wont immerse you into that society. You wont be raised with the norms, you wont feel the effect of years of bias, nor the togetherness of the community itself. It sounds good in theory, but the praticality wont work.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 4/30/2010 10:17:35 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 275
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 10:18:41 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What happened to the rich black man helping his own community? The entertainment industry is full of such men, and women.

I've heard Bill Cosby speak on the subject, and I've also heard some comments about his views. Apparently he's actually white. Heh. So it would seem that the differences are more ideological than racial.

K.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 276
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 10:20:41 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		As i keep pointing out.. at some point, the only color people see is green.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 277
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 10:54:38 AM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Don't you know that black people are always completely blameless and that the white man is responsible for all evil in the world?

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Profile   Post #: 278
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 1:43:09 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I did not kill your daddy. I did not steal your daddys house. I am sure you hold me no ill will and wish me a long an happy life in your house because I am not culpable of anything.

That is a non-sequitur. I would hold you culpable of no crime and wish you a long and happy life, but not in my house.

K.


Of course not you are white and you don't have to put up with that kind of shit.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 1:48:25 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

Don't you know that black people are always completely blameless and that the white man is responsible for all evil in the world?



Really???
Where did you come up with that moronic bit of knowledge/

(in reply to slavekal)
Profile   Post #: 280
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