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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 2:06:11 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

In reference to this...

quote:

I think the best way to eliminate racism in this country is for people like you to try what the journalist who wrote "Black Like Me" did. chemically change your skin color and pass for black for a year.

Can you suggest another way to eliminate sexism in this country?

Since this is a thread about race and the slave trade I had not thought to follow that line.

If it works for races, surely it works for the sexes as well.
Below you say it wont...so what game are you playing?

Changing your color wont immerse you into that society. You wont be raised with the norms, you wont feel the effect of years of bias, nor the togetherness of the community itself. It sounds good in theory, but the praticality wont work.

Perhaps you might want to actually read the book before you critique it.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 4/30/2010 2:12:02 PM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Exactly, Master Kirata.

Despite what many think of her, Oprah is a success story. She isnt successful because she is black, but in spite of it. There are many like her, entertainment, sports, business, science.

To DYB...

You soeak of the "elite white man" not wanting to help the black community. What happened to the rich black man helping his own community? The entertainment industry is full of such men, and women. Are they not helping to elevate their own communities? Im curious as to how you, personally, view this.

Wow. all I can say is wow. Do you think before you type or just go straight at it. .....Anyway. No there should be more support in the AA community from folks that have "made" it. But no one is talking about a handout tazzy. I am talking about rectifying the preferences that are inherent in the system. Whether that system benefits, whites, blacks, asians, indians....to have everyone to be given an equal chance to make their dreams come true. I know you think that it is like that now...but sadly it isn't.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 1:08:55 AM

tazzygirl

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I have pointed out repeatedly that it isnt like that now, and, for my people, never has been.

I always think before i post. Just because you dont like what i said doesnt mean i didnt give lots of thought to what i was posting.

Reality bites, sad to say. White men got ahead by the "good ole boy" network. They helped each other out, and still do. For the life of me i cannot understand why the black community has not done the same. Or maybe they are and i missed it somewhere.

As far as rectifying the system... thats a long way off. Like with any other problem... such as gay marriages for example, there are far too many blue hairs still around with loads of money making all the decisions that you and i disagree with/ Waiting for them to make everything "equal" will only gain you a long, long wait.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 3:43:28 AM

WyldHrt

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quote:

I am talking about rectifying the preferences that are inherent in the system. Whether that system benefits, whites, blacks, asians, indians....to have everyone to be given an equal chance to make their dreams come true. I know you think that it is like that now...but sadly it isn't.

I seriously doubt that many people actually think that everyone is born with an equal chance to make their dreams come true, DYB, and I'm dead sure tazzy isn't one of the delusional few who do.

The simple fact is that life isn't fair, and isn't ever going to be fair. For those of us who weren't born into wealth, the path is harder and has a hell of lot more branches to trip over. As a female that started school in the 70s, I was told repeatedly by my teachers that girls were 'not capable of understanding' math or science, and that I should concentrate on English, art, home ec, and other things that would make me a 'good' wife. Honey, please... even as a child, my response to such indoctrination was "Fuck that!"
Years later, I graduated university with a 3.8 in major GPA and a degree in ecology and systematic biology.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 3:59:50 AM

eyesopened

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
to have everyone to be given an equal chance to make their dreams come true. I know you think that it is like that now...but sadly it isn't.

This is what I have been saying. In my opinion the only way to give each an equal chance is to provide equal education.

Look, as much as we'd like it to be so, people are not born equal. There will always be folks who are smarter, or more talented or prettier or popular or whatever. Bigotry exists even in the animal kingdom. We need to be better than the animals but I remember my grandfather saying some nasty things about Norweigans (my grandpa was a Swedish immigrant) but never heard a negative word about black folks. People's perceptions are their reality.

What every single living thing has on this planet in absolute equality is 24 hours in each day. What we do with that is a true measure of our character and is the instrument of our successes or failures.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 4:24:38 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
to have everyone to be given an equal chance to make their dreams come true. I know you think that it is like that now...but sadly it isn't.

This is what I have been saying. In my opinion the only way to give each an equal chance is to provide equal education.

Look, as much as we'd like it to be so, people are not born equal. There will always be folks who are smarter, or more talented or prettier or popular or whatever. Bigotry exists even in the animal kingdom. We need to be better than the animals but I remember my grandfather saying some nasty things about Norweigans (my grandpa was a Swedish immigrant) but never heard a negative word about black folks. People's perceptions are their reality.

What every single living thing has on this planet in absolute equality is 24 hours in each day. What we do with that is a true measure of our character and is the instrument of our successes or failures.

See this is where you lose me. I don't believe that people are born "not equal". Everyone is given talents by the creator in some measure. What society deems as "talent" is another subject entirely. There are a gazillion people as intelligent as Bill Gates in this world. However, that gazillion didn't come from a wealthy family and therefore didn't have the where with all to create Microsoft. It still comes back to equality of opportunity and unless we do our utmost to level the field we are destined to never have problems resolved.

My question to you is if people are indeed created "not equal" then say we have a world that can accept only 4 billion people and not 6. We know that all 6 will die unless we cut back to 4 billion. Are you suggesting to do this we simply start with the least "talented" amongst us and dispatch them from our world?

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 4:26:54 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

I am talking about rectifying the preferences that are inherent in the system. Whether that system benefits, whites, blacks, asians, indians....to have everyone to be given an equal chance to make their dreams come true. I know you think that it is like that now...but sadly it isn't.

I seriously doubt that many people actually think that everyone is born with an equal chance to make their dreams come true, DYB, and I'm dead sure tazzy isn't one of the delusional few who do.

The simple fact is that life isn't fair, and isn't ever going to be fair. For those of us who weren't born into wealth, the path is harder and has a hell of lot more branches to trip over. As a female that started school in the 70s, I was told repeatedly by my teachers that girls were 'not capable of understanding' math or science, and that I should concentrate on English, art, home ec, and other things that would make me a 'good' wife. Honey, please... even as a child, my response to such indoctrination was "Fuck that!"
Years later, I graduated university with a 3.8 in major GPA and a degree in ecology and systematic biology.

But shouldn't we do everything in our power to make life fair? Or is it best just to give up and not progress. If I take your view then I'd still be on some plantation in the south with my old Massa telling me life just isn't fair but if the cards fall right for me maybe my life could be better.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 4:56:33 AM

Louve00

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If you took her view, you'd be somewhere but not on the plantation. Lincoln freed the slaves some hundreds years back. Just out of curiosity, DYB, have you have traced your ancestry back to where your people came from? My husband traced his back and its a very interesting story. He went back to the place his people were being kept (by people, I mean the people who were all bought from the same slave owner and brought to his 'island' (or plantation). In fact the descendants of the slaves that were kept by that slave owner meet every year at the same island right off of GA. Its sooo fucking cool to see people from Michigan (from my husband's side of the family) that you never knew who favor you lookwise.

**editted to correct my wording

< Message edited by Louve00 -- 5/1/2010 5:00:31 AM >

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 5:07:45 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

If you took her view, you'd be somewhere but not on the plantation. Lincoln freed the slaves some hundreds years back. Just out of curiosity, DYB, have you have traced your ancestry back to where your people came from? My husband traced his back and its a very interesting story. He went back to the place his people were being kept (by people, I mean the people who were all bought from the same slave owner and brought to his 'island' (or plantation). In fact the descendants of the slaves that were kept by that slave owner meet every year at the same island right off of GA. Its sooo fucking cool to see people from Michigan (from my husband's side of the family) that you never knew who favor you lookwise.

**editted to correct my wording

No, I haven't gone back to investigate my heritage to that extent. My father decided to leave after I was born so there is really no knowledge of his family. My mother, well we haven't taken the time.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 5:56:25 AM

WyldHrt

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quote:

But shouldn't we do everything in our power to make life fair? Or is it best just to give up and not progress. If I take your view then I'd still be on some plantation in the south with my old Massa telling me life just isn't fair but if the cards fall right for me maybe my life could be better.

You apparently missed my point. Please reread my post, as you seem to have stopped at "life isn't fair".
As for my view, it is about 1000 lightyears from your response... not sure how that happened.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 6:44:32 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
to have everyone to be given an equal chance to make their dreams come true. I know you think that it is like that now...but sadly it isn't.

This is what I have been saying. In my opinion the only way to give each an equal chance is to provide equal education.

Look, as much as we'd like it to be so, people are not born equal. There will always be folks who are smarter, or more talented or prettier or popular or whatever. Bigotry exists even in the animal kingdom. We need to be better than the animals but I remember my grandfather saying some nasty things about Norweigans (my grandpa was a Swedish immigrant) but never heard a negative word about black folks. People's perceptions are their reality.

What every single living thing has on this planet in absolute equality is 24 hours in each day. What we do with that is a true measure of our character and is the instrument of our successes or failures.

See this is where you lose me. I don't believe that people are born "not equal". Everyone is given talents by the creator in some measure. What society deems as "talent" is another subject entirely. There are a gazillion people as intelligent as Bill Gates in this world. However, that gazillion didn't come from a wealthy family and therefore didn't have the where with all to create Microsoft. It still comes back to equality of opportunity and unless we do our utmost to level the field we are destined to never have problems resolved.

My question to you is if people are indeed created "not equal" then say we have a world that can accept only 4 billion people and not 6. We know that all 6 will die unless we cut back to 4 billion. Are you suggesting to do this we simply start with the least "talented" amongst us and dispatch them from our world?

You miss my point entirely because I sense your mind is closed. Human beings are equal in value as human beings. Where in the world did I suggest that some people should be "dispatched"???? I was not born tall or pretty or largely talented, not from a rich family nor a poor one. I am at best average in all areas. There are people born without limbs, without the mental capacity to ever learn to read or write, people are born with disabilities. People are not born equal. How do we level the field to have genius level with mentally disabled? You can't and you shouldn't. My point is... how are you going to spend the 24 hours in this day, and the next and the next. THAT is the only thing in which equality is a guarantee. You (the general you) spend it being the best you can be and help the less fortunate and progess will happen. You spend it in bitterness and then life will remain bitter.

< Message edited by eyesopened -- 5/1/2010 6:47:32 AM >

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 7:02:33 AM

heartcream

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Malcom Gladwells book The Outlier's does a really good job to illustrate that people are successful not only because they are talented but because of the wonderful opportunities given them and sheer luck of being in the right place at the right time. Compelling reading.

Life is definitely not fair at this point and the whole, "I can do it so you can do it" is a load of horse doo most and much of the time.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 7:10:40 AM

LadyEllen

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thats true enough HC - but success actually = opportunity + being prepared for opportunity.

if one doesnt prepare, then it matters nothing what opportunities present themselves and oftentimes one wont even realise an opportunity has presented itself.

the only thing we peasants can do to prepare is to gain knowledge so we know an opportunity when we see it and can pursue it.

E

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 7:19:08 AM

Musicmystery

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Exactly.

I have had those "lucky breaks." I was also long prepared for them.

Who and what you are, what you have mastered, what you are well prepared to do--these qualities will find "lucky breaks."

Those who say "Why should I? When someone gives me a good chance, I'll dig in" will find they have continual "bad luck" and opposition.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 7:25:33 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Life is definitely not fair at this point and the whole, "I can do it so you can do it" is a load of horse doo most and much of the time.

The question is, "do what?" If the answer is to achieve some measure of success in society's terms, that's definitely a matter of talent, opportunity, and luck. But I do not believe that being successful necessarily or automatically equates to being happy. Happiness comes from inside, from an attitude toward the world that builds loving bonds and always sees the cup as half full rather than half empty. There is no more profoundly impoverished person than one who seeks happiness in all the wrong places and blames others for his failure to find it.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 5/1/2010 7:35:34 AM >

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 10:53:33 AM

heartcream

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Nah man, I dont buy it. Life is not fair, not balanced at this point of time and space. Lots of people with talent and what it takes to have a wonderful life are not given the same breaks and opportunities as others. It is not so much a blame game but a reality check.

Notice how it seems to always be the same spirity-mentally-polarized strain of voices where this so-called reason comes in? The whole pick yourself up, and be happy inside, glass half full and all that sort of talk, with a sort of no-nonsense sensibility is really off balance and not seeing the whole picture clearly. Folks patting themselves on the backs for how well they cope and manage with a matter of fact, self-congratulatory tone feels like blaming rage to me.

Yes we need to take responsibility for ourselves and much of the work is done on the inside. Responding truly and for the most part privately, in the safety of one's own space, to the external reality, will help to bring light but this whole we all have an equal go at it, people who are not rising up have only themselves to blame, they arent looking in the right places in the right way. We dont all have had an equal go at it is shit and it this heartless finger-pointing not helpful to those that struggle to bring themselves the reality they seek.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/1/2010 1:36:49 PM

LadyEllen

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Well, speaking as a transsexual who lost everything on announcing it eight and a half years ago, it was obviously dead easy for me to build an international business employing a dozen people over the last seven and a half years. No struggle whatsoever, it all just fell in my lap. Hopefully offices number 5 and 6 in countries 3 and 4 will soon fall in my lap too, along with another two dozen employees, to make our turnover around $15million, 'cause considering the lack of effort I put into it all and the easy ride I've had it must just be due to the unfair advantages that working class transsexuals have in life.

E

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/2/2010 7:46:08 AM

DomYngBlk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

But shouldn't we do everything in our power to make life fair? Or is it best just to give up and not progress. If I take your view then I'd still be on some plantation in the south with my old Massa telling me life just isn't fair but if the cards fall right for me maybe my life could be better.

You apparently missed my point. Please reread my post, as you seem to have stopped at "life isn't fair".
As for my view, it is about 1000 lightyears from your response... not sure how that happened.

No, I got your point. And there is honor in a struggle. But what I am saying wouldn't it be nice if no one had to struggle to "prove" their abilities?

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/2/2010 7:57:06 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
to have everyone to be given an equal chance to make their dreams come true. I know you think that it is like that now...but sadly it isn't.

This is what I have been saying. In my opinion the only way to give each an equal chance is to provide equal education.

Look, as much as we'd like it to be so, people are not born equal. There will always be folks who are smarter, or more talented or prettier or popular or whatever. Bigotry exists even in the animal kingdom. We need to be better than the animals but I remember my grandfather saying some nasty things about Norweigans (my grandpa was a Swedish immigrant) but never heard a negative word about black folks. People's perceptions are their reality.

What every single living thing has on this planet in absolute equality is 24 hours in each day. What we do with that is a true measure of our character and is the instrument of our successes or failures.

See this is where you lose me. I don't believe that people are born "not equal". Everyone is given talents by the creator in some measure. What society deems as "talent" is another subject entirely. There are a gazillion people as intelligent as Bill Gates in this world. However, that gazillion didn't come from a wealthy family and therefore didn't have the where with all to create Microsoft. It still comes back to equality of opportunity and unless we do our utmost to level the field we are destined to never have problems resolved.

My question to you is if people are indeed created "not equal" then say we have a world that can accept only 4 billion people and not 6. We know that all 6 will die unless we cut back to 4 billion. Are you suggesting to do this we simply start with the least "talented" amongst us and dispatch them from our world?

You miss my point entirely because I sense your mind is closed. Human beings are equal in value as human beings. Where in the world did I suggest that some people should be "dispatched"???? I was not born tall or pretty or largely talented, not from a rich family nor a poor one. I am at best average in all areas. There are people born without limbs, without the mental capacity to ever learn to read or write, people are born with disabilities. People are not born equal. How do we level the field to have genius level with mentally disabled? You can't and you shouldn't. My point is... how are you going to spend the 24 hours in this day, and the next and the next. THAT is the only thing in which equality is a guarantee. You (the general you) spend it being the best you can be and help the less fortunate and progess will happen. You spend it in bitterness and then life will remain bitter.

No, you miss my last question. If we had to choose .....who do we choose? The least amongst us or the what we call the "greatest". Its not an abstract question. There are many that say 6 billion humans are too many for the earth to support. That something "needs" to be done to change this or "all" of us are in peril. My question to you then is. If we have to pick who do we pick?

I don't have a closed mind. Mine is fully open. We are all embued with talents given to us by our creator. There is nothing that separates us from the other. I am saddened that you somehow think that there is.....you seem to think that the plane to which we fall in life is an ordered thing. That it is natural and that we have no ability to change that because we are "less talented" than the next. I reject that view entirely.

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RE: African complicity in the slave trade.... - 5/2/2010 8:01:53 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Nah man, I dont buy it. Life is not fair, not balanced at this point of time and space. Lots of people with talent and what it takes to have a wonderful life are not given the same breaks and opportunities as others. It is not so much a blame game but a reality check.

Notice how it seems to always be the same spirity-mentally-polarized strain of voices where this so-called reason comes in? The whole pick yourself up, and be happy inside, glass half full and all that sort of talk, with a sort of no-nonsense sensibility is really off balance and not seeing the whole picture clearly. Folks patting themselves on the backs for how well they cope and manage with a matter of fact, self-congratulatory tone feels like blaming rage to me.

Yes we need to take responsibility for ourselves and much of the work is done on the inside. Responding truly and for the most part privately, in the safety of one's own space, to the external reality, will help to bring light but this whole we all have an equal go at it, people who are not rising up have only themselves to blame, they arent looking in the right places in the right way. We dont all have had an equal go at it is shit and it this heartless finger-pointing not helpful to those that struggle to bring themselves the reality they seek.