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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 2:54:01 PM   
divi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I would pay to see that. Seriously, I would fund it.

If I had to borrow the money, I would pay to see that!

I hate Jeff

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:00:38 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

if someone wrote on here that they were diagnosed HIV + you can bet the community would be there with every bit of support they could muster.  maybe not in the physical sense, but here as an outlet to talk, lean on people who are not so emotionally close that they could not share the things that would be impossible to share with someone too emotionally vulnerable to cope with the despair we would normally try to spare the people we love.

there is more to a community than physical prescence.
I missed this post before-so now CM is a community because the people here are *not* so emotionally close? A minute ago you were saying it *was* a community because you felt *so* close to some of the posters.

There might be more to a community than a physical presence, but I still feel that you can't have a community without it.

You said in a previous post (something I also missed) that it was elitist to say this wasn't a community just because we were unable to all sit in a room and talk together. My response is that even if we all were in a room together, that *still* wouldn't make us a community.

If I can't pick up your kid from nursery because you've been unexpectedly held up somewhere, we aren't in the same community, no matter how much we talk. That doesn't mean we can't be friends. That doesn't mean we can't care about each other, that doesn't mean we can't matter to each other-you can have incredible bonds with people who aren't members of your community, but I agree with Jen-a community as I understand it is much more than communication alone.


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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:02:13 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
BTW...I am participating in a form of communication in a certain medium. Forums do not a community make.



Damn right.  Nor does communication.  That doesn't matter online or offline.
A subject in common creates a community.  Whether thats cooking or BDSM - WoW or the AA.
Right now, we are all part of the human community, but I doubt that anyone has spoken to everyone or been heard by everyone.  But that doesn't change the fact.

the.dark.

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:03:10 PM   
LaTigresse


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Perhaps it is less condescending to say.........."a community I would value" or "a community I would want to be a part of..."

Rather than wording it in absolutes that say you invalidate what it is to others.


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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:04:41 PM   
bondmaid123


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

but people are knocking it - they are saying that all of those positive things are not as valuable as real life and for some they are valuable.  for some this is the only BDSM outlet/community of minds available to them and they rely on it for input, output, sharing and talking.  to invalidate their sense of belonging here or elsewhere in terms of communicating with like minded people is fundamentally flawed. 



Actually, I don't think people are saying that the ~friendships~ formed are fundamentally flawed. But extrapolating from there and claiming "community" is, really, a stretch.

I recognize that there's a benefit to reaching out to others. HELL! I'm GOREAN. AND.. I'm ATHEIST. lol. How many of US do you think there are in my podunk town in the middle of the Midwest? MM hm. I get the concept of isolation, kink/lifestyle/otherwise. But my message boards don't replace real time interaction. They just tide me over.

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:10:25 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
I think discussions about community frustrate me, because it seems like the people who feel strongest about it and who romanticise it the most are also the people who have the least idea of how to actually accomplish it-I just end up wanting to shake them by the shoulders.



But you are making the assumption that people are romanticising it.  Could it be possible that it is actually you doing it though?
Community just means a same interest or just something that you have in common - like community midwives for example.  Maybe you are placing far more meaning and romance onto the word than you think?
Everyone down their local - a community.  Everyone in the area you live - you are part of that community - doesn't matter about communication.  Doesn't matter if you want to willing participate with people or not.

the.dark.

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:10:27 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

its taking an elitest view point and trashing a whole new form of communication between people and calling it not real, not genuine, not in any sense valid.  bollox.
I disagree-it's saying that a new form of communication, which is very good at creating individual relationships, does not create a community. That's not to say it's invalid. Clearly I don't personally think it's invalid-I'm *here*.

quote:

you dont have to make soup and bung people a twenty to prove youre 'there'.
See, you're missing the point-it's not about proving anything. Community is the mundane-people who are in communities don't have to prove they are there, because they so obviously are.

The chicken soup isn't saying 'let me show you how much I care and how good and close a friend I am', it's saying 'you've got a sore throat, something for which my Jewish roots know chicken soup to be handy'-no serious emotion involved, and not really that much thought.

If you put thought into the fact that it's a community (outside of discussions about the fact that it's a community :p-seriously, this is the first time I've really thought about it for years) then my gut feeling would be that it probably isn't one.


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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:14:35 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

But you are making the assumption that people are romanticising it.  Could it be possible that it is actually you doing it though?

Well, ok, what I really meant by that is people romanticising *my* community-the 'oh, it must be so amazing to be Jewish/Iraqi-all that Community!' brigade. I wasn't talking about anyone here.

Sorry that was unclear.


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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:15:56 PM   
LaTigresse


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It isn't one to YOU, for you, for your life.

But the fact remains that just because it doesn't fit YOU.....you still cannot change the definition of the word in the dictionary to fit what fits you. The best you can do is to say you do not personally wish to identify with the community that someone else is.....that it does not feel like a community to you.

I guess the best way to describe how I feel is to say, as example...........I do not have the right to define what makes Lally feel like a part of a community or not. If her community fits the definition the dictionary gives, whether I like it or not, it is.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 4/27/2010 3:20:50 PM >


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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:19:12 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

The best you can do is to say you do not personally wish to identify with the community that someone else is.....that it does not feel like a community to you.
Which is what I said originally, I think.

You know what? I'm tired, I'm ill, I'm not being reasonable. I'm going to back out of this one.

If I've upset anyone then I apologise.


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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:20:55 PM   
lally2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

if someone wrote on here that they were diagnosed HIV + you can bet the community would be there with every bit of support they could muster.  maybe not in the physical sense, but here as an outlet to talk, lean on people who are not so emotionally close that they could not share the things that would be impossible to share with someone too emotionally vulnerable to cope with the despair we would normally try to spare the people we love.

there is more to a community than physical prescence.
I missed this post before-so now CM is a community because the people here are *not* so emotionally close? A minute ago you were saying it *was* a community because you felt *so* close to some of the posters.

on an individual basis i have grown close to one or two of the members on here.  collectively we are not so close to someone dying as their sibling, parent, lover - sometimes its easier to talk to someone not so emotionally invested in you about emotionally agonising stuff.

There might be more to a community than a physical presence, but I still feel that you can't have a community without it.

community spirit does go beyond the physical.  i go to peoples houses as part of my work.  people stuck in doors with no possible way of getting out and about.  they talk about seeing neighbour #1 driving their new car, neighbour #2 having visitors last weekend.  just having people 'there' in some format gives a sense of belonging to a community.



You said in a previous post (something I also missed) that it was elitist to say this wasn't a community just because we were unable to all sit in a room and talk together. My response is that even if we all were in a room together, that *still* wouldn't make us a community.

if we were all sitting in the same room the commonality of our communion would make it a community.  we might not all get along, we might never want to do it again, we might wish we hadnt bothered.  but for that time our commonality creates a community of people.  even if theres no soup or twentys being handed out

If I can't pick up your kid from nursery because you've been unexpectedly held up somewhere, we aren't in the same community, no matter how much we talk. That doesn't mean we can't be friends. That doesn't mean we can't care about each other, that doesn't mean we can't matter to each other-you can have incredible bonds with people who aren't members of your community, but I agree with Jen-a community as I understand it is much more than communication alone.

when communication is all you have then you have no community - ok - tell that to the old dears dotted about who cant get out and can only speak on the phone, who rely on paid carers to take care of them, meals on wheels to feed them and the occasional visit from a busy relative once in a while.  you tell them that they are completely forgotten and disenfranchised from the community they feel deeply connected to though they cant any more take part in it.  its just a bit harsh.



< Message edited by lally2 -- 4/27/2010 3:38:06 PM >


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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:21:44 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

But you are making the assumption that people are romanticising it.  Could it be possible that it is actually you doing it though?

Well, ok, what I really meant by that is people romanticising *my* community-the 'oh, it must be so amazing to be Jewish/Iraqi-all that Community!' brigade. I wasn't talking about anyone here.

Sorry that was unclear.



I don't see anything inherently wrong or romantic about people being proud of their heritage or community, particularly if they have always had a positive vibe from it.  The danger is going to only come in when you get the whole my way is right for everyone extremists... but that's got zero to do with community, just like communication has nothing to do with it.

There is always a group who need to 'belong'... or even to get their voice heard.  Right here on this forum there are little individual communities going on - the ones in Polls and Random, the ones talking about politics... communities are everywhere.  But people don't have to talk to people to be part of it.  They don't have to act.  There doesn;t have to be friendships - you could loathe certain individuals!  All a person needs to do is have something in common with someone else and that's 'community'. 

the.dark.

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:23:25 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

The best you can do is to say you do not personally wish to identify with the community that someone else is.....that it does not feel like a community to you.
Which is what I said originally, I think.

You know what? I'm tired, I'm ill, I'm not being reasonable. I'm going to back out of this one.

If I've upset anyone then I apologise.



I cannot speak for anyone else, you certainly have not upset me. I enjoy a debate and have zero emotional attachment to this one at all.

I am sorry to hear you are not feeling well, I hope a good night of sleep will change that for you.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:23:36 PM   
Aileen1968


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I think there are levels of "community" and they dictate how much time, effort and emotion we put into them.
For me, real life is the top of the list. Online falls somewhere down.
There are people that I only know by words from here. Some I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole and some I can't wait to meet.
Perhaps when I meet them in real life, they will move up the list. Maybe they won't.

Everyone's priorities are different and one's is no better than another's.
If someone feels a great sense of belonging to an online community then that's great. It works for them and affects me not one bit.

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:26:01 PM   
divi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

The best you can do is to say you do not personally wish to identify with the community that someone else is.....that it does not feel like a community to you.
Which is what I said originally, I think.

You know what? I'm tired, I'm ill, I'm not being reasonable. I'm going to back out of this one.

If I've upset anyone then I apologise.


feel better VC...I will forgive the divi jokes since you are sick

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:29:23 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: divi

feel better VC

Thankyou-and to LaT

quote:

...I will forgive the divi jokes since you are sick
what, I'm not allowed to make jokes about wanting photos of LaT spanking you unless I'm sick?!?

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:30:10 PM   
divi


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lol.. not gonna mention it lol..
feel better doll

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 3:32:39 PM   
lally2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: divi

feel better VC

Thankyou-and to LaT

quote:

...I will forgive the divi jokes since you are sick
what, I'm not allowed to make jokes about wanting photos of LaT spanking you unless I'm sick?!?


i enjoy a good debate too  - nowt personal going on here either - hope you feel better soon x

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So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 4:28:20 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
but i have to disagree.  there is community here.


There is a certain element of community here and it's also worth noting that there is a lack of it in many situations that meet all of the OP's criteria for community. It's not as cut and dried as the speaker(s) at that event would like to paint it.




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RE: Communication does not create "Community" - 4/27/2010 4:31:02 PM   
DesFIP


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My lifelong experience in a gay community is that the 'community' didn't go to the hospital to see dying friends. Individuals did. Lovers and friends and family is who I saw.

Just like every other group of people. A knitting circle is a community but it in no way means that you can count on all of the other knitters to take your dog when you need to go out of town. A couple of the other people who you have become true friends with will do that for you.

But just because you both like to knit, or flog? Nope, doesn't mandate love or friendship. And that's what gets people to do things to help, to bring food when you're mourning, to do your shopping when you're stuck home with a sick kid. Not having a shared activity.


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