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GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ comment dr... - 4/28/2010 4:01:25 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0428/gop-candidates-microchip-illegal-comment-draws-outrage/

The good news is that the comment drew outrage.   Even if you wanted to you can not quantify that no one does not exist- visa vi a chip.

What a dumb comment.  But good that people find it in poor taste.
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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/28/2010 4:22:23 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Yeah, he is an idiot. Don't "microchip them deport them like they're supposed to be doing!

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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/28/2010 4:25:43 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Yes. I do not support an amnesty.   We had one already.  So deport is the preferred option.

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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/28/2010 4:27:10 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		If the republican immigration strategy is letting each state set up their own immigration laws then the US federal government's enforcement of immigration will become more complicated and most likely unenforceable.

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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/28/2010 4:28:43 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		The issue is not so much that they are here- but the use of public services- that makes then less available to people who actually paid for them.

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/28/2010 5:02:48 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

If the republican immigration strategy is letting each state set up their own immigration laws then the US federal government's enforcement of immigration will become more complicated and most likely unenforceable.


Brain, when is the U.S. govt. going to *start* enforcing our immigration laws? If they'd been doing so for the last 20 years we wouldn't have 15 to 20 million illegal aliens in this country now would we?


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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/28/2010 5:30:48 PM   
Sserpentia


Posts: 66
Joined: 1/26/2010
Status: offline 		The states need to start taking their power back. The federal government doesn't know how to tie their shoes properly. Give the states a few years and we won't have the immigration problem we have now

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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/28/2010 5:38:39 PM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
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“I think we should catch ’em, we should document ’em, make sure we know where they are and where they are going. I actually support microchipping them," Bertroche said. "I can microchip my dog so I can find it. Why can’t I microchip an illegal? That’s not a popular thing to say, but it’s a lot cheaper than building a fence they can tunnel under.”Bertroche has already backpedaled from the comment, telling the Associated Press he can't understand why people would think he was suggesting illegal immigrants be micro-chipped or that he was comparing him to dogs.


You can't make up stuff this funny.

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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/28/2010 6:19:08 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sserpentia

The states need to start taking their power back. The federal government doesn't know how to tie their shoes properly. Give the states a few years and we won't have the immigration problem we have now


Which power is that?

(in reply to Sserpentia)
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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/28/2010 6:20:26 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

The issue is not so much that they are here- but the use of public services- that makes then less available to people who actually paid for them.



They pay for them so why shouldn't they have access to them?

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/29/2010 1:04:44 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		You will not solve illegal immigration by any other means than by firstly seriously pursuing and punishing those who employ illegal immigrants, and only secondly deporting those illegal immigrants discovered (but not by way of the "Arizona Technique").

Even then, considering the "success" in similar endeavours relating to weapons, drugs and the rest, the problem will not go away unless all pull and push factors are tackled comprehensively and persistently - which may mean development aid to those countries whence illegal immigration arises.

Is it a problem? Of course - the very description illegal immigration indicates it to be so. Add the real and valid concerns of citizens and legal immigrants, staying or temporary, and there must be action taken. Is it a problem that requires immediate focus though, when there are so many other problems that patently do, and in general the illegal immigrant has an at worst neutral effect on the economy? This is less simple to answer, but may in the end provide the solution - the biggest problem facing the US and the west in general may just reduce the pull factor such that we are no longer destinations of choice.

E

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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/29/2010 1:19:03 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		There are two misconceptions here: that illegal immigrants use substantial public services, and that they don't pay for them.

In reality, they are generally young healthy individuals who come to the USA to work.

And they generally pay more taxes than US citizens - because taxes are withheld from their incomes, but they can't file a return to claim a refund.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
The issue is not so much that they are here- but the use of public services- that makes then less available to people who actually paid for them.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/29/2010 1:27:04 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Actually, that is bound to fail, too. The only real way to solve the immigration crisis is to fix the LEGAL immigration system.

When we take 96% of applicants "sorry, you aren't even eligible to get in line" - and those 4% we tell "sorry, you have to wait 5 years before you are eligible to even visit your SPOUSE!" (Family 2A category, one of the highest-priority categories) and up to 23 years for other family members - well, then we really shouldn't be surprised that people say "screw that".

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
You will not solve illegal immigration by any other means than by firstly seriously pursuing and punishing those who employ illegal immigrants, and only secondly deporting those illegal immigrants discovered (but not by way of the "Arizona Technique").

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/29/2010 2:17:38 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

Actually, that is bound to fail, too. The only real way to solve the immigration crisis is to fix the LEGAL immigration system.

When we take 96% of applicants "sorry, you aren't even eligible to get in line" - and those 4% we tell "sorry, you have to wait 5 years before you are eligible to even visit your SPOUSE!" (Family 2A category, one of the highest-priority categories) and up to 23 years for other family members - well, then we really shouldn't be surprised that people say "screw that".

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
You will not solve illegal immigration by any other means than by firstly seriously pursuing and punishing those who employ illegal immigrants, and only secondly deporting those illegal immigrants discovered (but not by way of the "Arizona Technique").



Cadenas, we're taking in three million people a year now. That's like adding a city the size of Philedelphia every year! Also, *we* decide who gets in.
If it were up to me I wouldn't take in anymore people from Mexico, Central America or the Carribean countries as they're the biggest offenders.
Everyone who wants to come to the U.S. simply cannot be accomodated. They need to have a plan b.
And what if we decide to end all immigration for ten or twenty years like we have before?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/29/2010 3:10:52 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sserpentia

The states need to start taking their power back. The federal government doesn't know how to tie their shoes properly. Give the states a few years and we won't have the immigration problem we have now


Which power is that?


Well, it starts with the 10th amendment and it can go from there. Much will still be forced through the federal courts...just like this new law in Ariz.

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/29/2010 5:22:13 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

There are two misconceptions here: that illegal immigrants use substantial public services, and that they don't pay for them.

In reality, they are generally young healthy individuals who come to the USA to work.

And they generally pay more taxes than US citizens - because taxes are withheld from their incomes, but they can't file a return to claim a refund.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
The issue is not so much that they are here- but the use of public services- that makes then less available to people who actually paid for them.



Not taking into consideration those paid under the table?

_____________________________

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/29/2010 5:33:29 AM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		It does seem strange to me that you guys don't deport illegals....but, the usa is a big nation, lots and lots of room, built on immigration. It's understandable that people continue to head there, and maybe the solution would be to welcome them. What's with the harsh restrictions on immigration anyways?....usa is a big empty country, lotta talk about the loss of industry over there, could use more labour. Either deport them or let them come legally, one or the other.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/29/2010 5:41:33 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Problem with deporting is that we dont know who is here legally and who isnt because our laws dont allow us to ask unless there is a criminal investigation.

Basically, until they get into trouble, its a "dont ask, dont tell" policy.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DCWoody)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/29/2010 7:18:45 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
Actually, that is bound to fail, too. The only real way to solve the immigration crisis is to fix the LEGAL immigration system.

When we take 96% of applicants "sorry, you aren't even eligible to get in line" - and those 4% we tell "sorry, you have to wait 5 years before you are eligible to even visit your SPOUSE!" (Family 2A category, one of the highest-priority categories) and up to 23 years for other family members - well, then we really shouldn't be surprised that people say "screw that".

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
You will not solve illegal immigration by any other means than by firstly seriously pursuing and punishing those who employ illegal immigrants, and only secondly deporting those illegal immigrants discovered (but not by way of the "Arizona Technique").



Cadenas, we're taking in three million people a year now. That's like adding a city the size of Philedelphia every year! Also, *we* decide who gets in.
If it were up to me I wouldn't take in anymore people from Mexico, Central America or the Carribean countries as they're the biggest offenders.
Everyone who wants to come to the U.S. simply cannot be accomodated. They need to have a plan b.
And what if we decide to end all immigration for ten or twenty years like we have before?

I think your information is quite a bit off. I've heard some of your claims before, from some Oxicontin-addled radio talk show hosts.

A couple of facts: the overall number of legal immigrants annually is between half a million and just a bit over one million. The numbers were actually pretty up-and-down because of the complete meltdown of the legal immigration system. The average is somewhere around 800,000.

For comparison, in the 1920s, we had a third of our current population - and yet accepted more immigrants (immigration was in unlimited numbers until 1921, when the first quota was created).

And we were able to accommodate 2 million Irish in the 1840s just fine, even though we had just 20 million Americans. That shows that we can easily absorb 30 million immigrants.

As for the quota: the relevant number for Mexico is 25,600. That's how many Mexicans can immigrate legally - and they still need to be married to somebody who already is legally in the USA, or have a parent or adult child in the USA. Engineers, teachers etc. may also qualify for employment-based immigration. Overall, actual annual immigration quota is 226,000 family based plus 140,000 employment based. There are some quota-exempt groups, but since they don't affect the waiting time, that's irrelevant.

Also, you omitted some of the biggest offenders: Canada and Europe also send quite a few illegal immigrants.

Of course we get to decide who gets in. What's your point? We can be either smart about it, or we can refuse to be smart. So far, we've been more like a little kid throwing a tantrum than actually being smart about it.

Oh, and for your last claim: we have actually never stopped all immigration, let alone for a decade or two. If we tried - sure, nothing wrong with that. We'd just have to live with the consequences of that decision, too. It wouldn't be pretty.


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RE: GOP candidate’s ‘microchip an illegal’ commen... - 4/29/2010 7:31:20 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		they are all on welfare.

(in reply to cadenas)
Profile   Post #: 20
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