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RE: BP responsible? - 5/2/2010 8:23:50 AM   
pahunkboy


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...I was just thinking that.  It happened on Obushas watch.

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RE: BP responsible. - 5/2/2010 8:25:48 AM   
TheHeretic


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The timeline to get the flow under control just seems kind of surreal. If we can't get the shutoff valves to work, what makes redirecting the leaks so damn hard? NPR had an interview that was easy to find, but he started out by saying that 5000 feet was a mile and a half.




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RE: BP responsible? - 5/2/2010 8:36:44 AM   
SilverMark


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To compare the spill to Katrina is a stretch Sanity. Mother Nature, the prevailing winds and rough seas has made the containment very difficult and No One is ignoring the issue, No one is there patting whoever is in charge on the back and there isn't a city of millions at risk with nothing being done. Katrina made MR. Whats His Name look pretty bad but, even then, the fault lied to a great degree with the local government and not the Federal government as far as prevention of the stranding of all those people, the Federal government made their mistakes in the reaction. From what I can tell all that can be done is being done but, I am certain there are much brighter engineers that will gladly share the best answers to the issue.

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RE: BP responsible? - 5/2/2010 8:41:15 AM   
pahunkboy


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No.

We are too early into this to know the extent of Katrina per this.

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RE: BP responsible? - 5/2/2010 8:42:23 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Its SOMEBODYS Katrina.

But I ain't namin' names...


Maybe you should start analyzing things for yourself instead of listening to what Rush Limpdick and the rest of the conservative propagandists spout.

Katrina was a natural disaster, this is not.

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RE: BP responsible? - 5/2/2010 8:48:45 AM   
Sanity


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From the New York Times, which is hardly a bastion of Conservatism:

quote:

BP officials said they did everything possible, and a review of the response suggests it may be too simplistic to place all the blame on the oil company. The federal government also had opportunities to move more quickly, but did not do so while it waited for a resolution to the spreading spill from BP, which was leasing the drilling rig that exploded in flames on April 20 and sank two days later. Eleven workers are missing and presumed dead.

The Department of Homeland Security waited until Thursday to declare that the incident was "a spill of national significance," and then set up a second command center in Mobile. The actions came only after the estimate of the size of the spill was increased fivefold to 5,000 barrels a day.

The delay meant that the Homeland Security Department waited until late this week to formally request a more robust response from the Department of Defense, with Ms. Napolitano acknowledging even as late as Thursday afternoon that she did not know if the Defense Department even had equipment that might be helpful.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/01/us/01gulf.html?ref=todayspaper&pagewanted=all


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RE: BP responsible. - 5/2/2010 8:52:24 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
The timeline to get the flow under control just seems kind of surreal. If we can't get the shutoff valves to work, what makes redirecting the leaks so damn hard? NPR had an interview that was easy to find, but he started out by saying that 5000 feet was a mile and a half.


The Timor Sea leak started on August 21 and was stopped on Nov 3.  Your looking at a similar time line here.  If it comes to drilling a relief well there is no quick way.

What makes it so hard?  Let's start with the fact that it's 5,000 feet down and the relief well has to directly intersect the old well.  There is no redirecting the leak, the well has to be closed.

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RE: BP responsible. - 5/2/2010 9:04:10 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


It seems likely that the oil company that holds the lease on Deepwater Horizon, BP, will finally have to abandon its Orwellian “Beyond Petroleum” marketing campaign. This slogan has been so perversely successful that, in 2008, British marketers voted BP’s brand more “green” than Greenpeace. Factually ludicrous, the slogan does accurately reflect drivers’ desire to buy unlimited gasoline while remaining “beyond” all the mess.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/opinion/02margonelli.html?partner=MYWAY&ei=5065

I have always loathed marketing people.

--------

I just went to New Orleans for the first time back in March, too.

Which is to say, you loath capitalist propaganda, the likes of which we've been getting for over 60 years.

It wouldn't surprise me and I also wouldn't put it past them if BP or their hirelings...did it themselves to help prop up the price.


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 5/2/2010 9:07:11 AM >

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RE: BP responsible. - 5/2/2010 9:04:32 AM   
MasterG2kTR


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Its BPs oil, so BP are responsible. This is not the same as saying that the spill is due to any error or omission on the part of BP however - what BP are liable for is another variety of tort. Nevertheless I would expect BP to be sued for the entirety.

As to who will end up with the bill though, thats a different matter. The rig owner and operator appears to be the first liable party and then Halliburton and maybe AN Other, who presumably contracted to them. I would expect BP to either counterclaim against these other parties or bring them front and square in the suit against them. As it would appear at this stage, BP ought to be able to recover from these others whatever it is judged to have to pay out.

But now isnt really the time to be dealing with this stuff when the priority is to get the leak stopped and to limit the damage from what has already leaked. BP and many others are taking serious action in this regard but frankly the situation is beyond the capacity of the equipment available and despite efforts this is going to affect the area for decades. Compensation payouts to humans will be based on this lasting damage and go some way to providing for lost incomes and lost values. What no amount of compensation can do though is repair the eco system or provide for the fauna and flora.

Let us also remember in discussing all this that several people died in the incident that preceded and caused the oil spill.

E


quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

BP is already throwing Transocean under the bus.
    The head of BP Group told CNN's Brian Todd in an exclusive interview Wednesday that the accident could have
    been prevented, and he focused blame on rig owner Transocean Ltd.  They have publicly said that "Transoceans"
    blowout preventer which was being operated by "Transocean" failed. 


They are also positioning Haliburton under the bus as well with the suggestions that the well was capped improperly.


From BP to TransOcean to Haliburton and every peon in between, they are ALL to blame. Why? For being complete morons, starting with the engineers that created this entire fiasco. For being so arrogant, ignorant and short sighted not to conceive the possibility of a catastrophic failure of this magnitude that they failed to put in a simple shut-off valve deep under the surface of the water. One that can easily be shut off by divers or even robotic submarines.

A shut off  valve is something common to the plumbing in every home. Several of them exist in most homes so that you can isolate various areas for repair and/or remodeling purposes. The concept here is no different. For discussion purposes here, lets say the total depth of their pipe is 5 miles down from the surface of the water. Place a valve at every mile of pipe!! It's a simple operation after that.

I should add that I did have a V8 and I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night 

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RE: BP responsible? - 5/2/2010 9:05:58 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Its SOMEBODYS Katrina.

But I ain't namin' names...




..."An April 30 Associated Press article reported: "For days, as an oil spill spread in the Gulf of Mexico, BP assured the government the plume was manageable, not catastrophic. Federal authorities were content to let the company handle the mess while keeping an eye on the operation." The article continued: "But then government scientists realized the leak was five times larger than they had been led to believe, and days of lulling statistics and reassuring words gave way Thursday to an all-hands-on-deck emergency response. ..."

http://mediamatters.org/research/201004300034



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RE: BP responsible? - 5/2/2010 9:13:50 AM   
domiguy


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This is a man made ( corporate ) disaster. The gov't is not supposed to be responsible for the clean up.

However, I actually agree with Sanity to a point (God help me). Even though BP might be responsible for the clean up and all damages and costs incurred, their lack of initiative in getting this under control does not effect them in the same manner, in that that the oil is not washing up on their corporate head quarters. "WE" bear the brunt of their ineptness because "We" are the ones that are going to be forced to live with this mess.

the question is....shouldn't we be more prepared to deal with this type of a scenario?

The answer is a resounding "Yes!!!"

What if BP just said, "Fuck ya all!"

We still are the ones that are going to be forced to clean up this mess and deal with all of the ramifications. Do we want another agency or more gov't spending to set up this agency or to pay for the required technology and machinery to combat such future fiascos? Tea baggers should say, "No, we do not."

Am I any way culpable in this? Hell no. I have always been willing to pay more for my products, services and gas if it meant that disasters like this could be avoided. I cannot imagine how devastated the people that live along this area must be feeling right now.

When the Valdez oil spill occurred it was an out of sight out of mind type of philosophy. This will not be so easily ignored. I can't imagine what I would feel like if this spill had somehow happened in Lake Michigan, I know I would be devastated.

I went back and did a search in the forums by using the word "drilling".....Seems like there are a lot of folks out here that really dig anal as well as searching for oil in some of the most pristine areas on the planet.

Shame on you.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 5/2/2010 9:22:07 AM >


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RE: BP responsible? - 5/2/2010 9:17:36 AM   
heartcream


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It is devastating.

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RE: BP responsible? - 5/2/2010 9:19:47 AM   
pahunkboy


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when a barrel of oil is traded 36 times b4 market- then that is your culprit.

BP is no worse then any other company-corporation. I mean YOU FUND IT?

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RE: BP responsible. - 5/2/2010 9:28:16 AM   
TheHeretic


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Here is the diagram they are running with


I just don't see why it is so difficult to be capturing what's coming out, or at least a significant percentage of it, in a much shorter time frame.

Beyond the government commissions and blame passing, I think there should be a hefty cash prize, say 10 million, to the deepwater salvage co. that can come up with a way to do it. Not that I expect using the free market and the profit motive to solve a problem would even occur to this administration...



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RE: BP responsible. - 5/2/2010 9:35:13 AM   
pahunkboy


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I don't shop there.  More to the point- BP is 10% ethanol here- and I want real gas.

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RE: BP responsible. - 5/2/2010 9:53:31 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Here is the diagram they are running with


I just don't see why it is so difficult to be capturing what's coming out, or at least a significant percentage of it, in a much shorter time frame.

Beyond the government commissions and blame passing, I think there should be a hefty cash prize, say 10 million, to the deepwater salvage co. that can come up with a way to do it. Not that I expect using the free market and the profit motive to solve a problem would even occur to this administration...




You would thin that BP would be taking a stronger initiative. They are ultimately responsible for all of the costs.

Now that a decent amount of time had passed I think because of the enviromental impact that the gov should be able to step in and allow anyone to come in and be compensated that can help bring this thing to an end.

I have a feeling that the process of capping this fucker probably borders on the edge of difficult to impossible or it would have already been done.

I feel awful for everything that is going to be destroyed by this disaster.

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RE: BP responsible. - 5/2/2010 9:59:38 AM   
thornhappy


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It's not all coming from one place; it's coming from the wellhead, the riser, and points in between.  Not like you could just drop a big oven hood over it.

Drilling any type of well takes a lot of time.  It's horrendously tough work.  You're down a mile before you even start, the reservoir's another 18000 feet down and you also have to try to get close to the original well.  I'd bet 6 months to get this under control.

If the ROV's haven't been able to shut the flow via the blowout preventer, it was probably damaged in the blowout.  It's happened in the past - you can't anticipate all circumstances when you design that gear.
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Here is the diagram they are running with


I just don't see why it is so difficult to be capturing what's coming out, or at least a significant percentage of it, in a much shorter time frame.

Beyond the government commissions and blame passing, I think there should be a hefty cash prize, say 10 million, to the deepwater salvage co. that can come up with a way to do it. Not that I expect using the free market and the profit motive to solve a problem would even occur to this administration...



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RE: BP responsible. - 5/2/2010 10:15:38 AM   
TheHeretic


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It's the multiple leaks that seem (to me anyway) to make this do-able, Thorns. They don't have to deal with the full pressure of the leak all in one place, all at one time.

I think you'd need something in a custom dome, instead of an oven hood at those pressures though. If only there were places along the Gulf Coast where they shaped big pieces of steel to make boats or something.

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RE: BP responsible. - 5/2/2010 10:23:00 AM   
pahunkboy


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on the bright side- is now there will be jobs.  jobs I say!!!    hiccup

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RE: BP responsible. - 5/2/2010 10:29:16 AM   
tazzygirl


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keep drinking, pahunk. your starting to make a little bit more sense

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