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RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/7/2010 12:47:11 AM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		A controller may invite a surrendered person to share in their healthy diet and the extent of their physical activity.

It is simply a choice of whether to participate.

A controller who simply barks an order, without earning due respect by example, is too often a narcissistic hypocrite unworthy of sharing in one's surrender.

Is being healthy the right thing to do?

(in reply to AspX)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/7/2010 2:38:19 AM   
AspX


Posts: 69
Joined: 3/23/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks to everyone that has posted their opinions. I think this has been a very good discussion and I am really glad that it hasn't degenerated at all (which is what I was afraid might happen when I originally posted, because it is such a sensitive subject).

Although I have been reading everything that everyone has been saying, I haven't been able to stay in the discussion myself because I had a little knife accident while trying to chop up some Jalapenos and really can only use one hand for typing right now because of where the cut is (nothing permanent, but it will take at least a few days to heal). However, what I am hearing so far is as interesting as I hoped it would be.

<Edited to add this>

Whoops... meant this as a general statement rather than a reply to aldompdx's post...

< Message edited by AspX -- 5/7/2010 2:41:01 AM >

(in reply to aldompdx)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/7/2010 6:09:14 AM   
afkarr


Posts: 328
Joined: 1/13/2010
Status: offline 		The only time I'm not conscious of my size and shape is when I'm with my Dom; I doubt that playtime would be any fun at all if he made me feel like I was being judged or criticized or a lessor person because of what I look like. And if I'm not enjoying it, I'm not doing it. Real Doms know the beauty of big girls is there's more of us to love.....

(in reply to AspX)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/7/2010 8:29:40 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Require her to change body? Yes, of course.

Reflection of me? Yes, of course

Journal, et.al.? Yes, but the journaling only because it was helpful to her. My focus is on the goal, not the details.

Does my physical appearance play in? Yes, but not in the way you mentioned. I believe in leading from the front. So if I'm telling Carol to get healthier, well... then so am I.

How about health? Of course that matters. Yes I need to take care of what is mine.

how about the other direction? It would depend. The weight isn't the issue. But I could consider it inappropriate to command her to introduce significant health risks into her life. If, on the other hand, she was below recommended body fat pecentages, then i would command the increase of body fat.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to AspX)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/7/2010 9:28:06 AM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		I actually wish Mistress WOULD require me to keep  my weight and measurements at specified levels.  If I knew that a 30 inch waist would earn me a reward, I could pass up the chocolate a lot easier.

_____________________________

"The Courage to Submit: the submissive male's guide to finding a dominant woman"
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/the-courage-to-submit-the-guide-for-the-submissive-male-seeking-a-dominant-woman/5968917

(in reply to AspX)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/7/2010 9:33:32 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

I actually wish Mistress WOULD require me to keep  my weight and measurements at specified levels.  If I knew that a 30 inch waist would earn me a reward, I could pass up the chocolate a lot easier.


Well, maybe you should go on a eating binge and gain some pounds. It's the only way I can think of for that to happen. I have seen you in the real world and judging by the last time, I would say I didn't notice any areas that would be considered fat enough to make you lose it.


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to slavekal)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/7/2010 10:44:32 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AspX
As part of a long-term M/s relationship, does anyone here require the bottom to transform their body so that it is more pleasing to their top?


Yes, and actually I do that professionally in a BDSM context also.  ;)


quote:

Do tops view their bottom's physical appearance as a reflection of themselves when they take the bottom out in public (whether it be an actual BDSM activity or just to the grocery store)?


Yes and no.  Mostly I am concerned with deportment and grooming.  I don't have a problem going out proudly with a bottom who is working hard on getting fit and healthy but who is nowhere near there yet.  If they have not yet succeeded in body recomposition efforts to look like a perfect fashion model, that is not a problem.  If they have not bathed, combed themselves or dressed presentably, that is a problem, and that would be a reflection on me if I tolerated it.


quote:

Does requiring the bottom to journal what they eat, or limit caloric/carb/fat intake, or exercise for a certain amount of time (or in a certain way) in order to make themselves more physically attractive increase the bond of service by having the bottom serve in little ways throughout the entire day?


This is treading on interesting territory.  One thing I consider highly unethical is for someone without good credentials and experience (eg, a certified personal trainer, degreed nutritionist, etc) to direct another person to control their nutritional intake and physical activity according to fad diets, unsound principles not well founded in science, and just plain not knowing what they are doing.   If you want to do this kind of thing, either hire an outside professional or get damn serious yourself about studying the science.

I tend to approach the issue from the other way round, that is to say, I use the kink and D/s to help motivate clients to make better day to day choices about their health and fitness.  Different people have different hot buttons in terms of kink and fetish and D/s desires, and together the client and I can learn how to push those buttons to help create and reinforce solid, sustainable habits that lead to overall lifestyle changes for better health.  It works remarkably well.

Food and exercise journaling is an excellent tool and I highly recommend it.  Doing so in a way that is accountable to others, whether to a support group of peers, a coach or trainer, or a dominant, is also quite motivating.  Whether it increases the bond between top and bottom depends entirely on the individuals.  It is an effective technique in general. 

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 5/7/2010 10:46:10 AM >

_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to AspX)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/7/2010 10:47:32 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Yes, and actually I do that professionally in a BDSM context also. ;)


Ya know, I just might have taken weight watchers a little more seriously if they had had legs like that


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/7/2010 11:02:08 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
Eating issues are deep deep behavioral issues.  I don't consider them controllable by sex- or fetsih-orientation-based D/s.  Anyone who thinks they can top you out of your poor health has one big honking ego, without much backing it up.  (Certified personal trainers, and so on, excepted.  But we know people with actual credentials are pretty frikkin rare.)


Deep psychological issues around eating, overeating, binging, purging, starving, etc, require professional help of the medical or psychiatric variety.  A partner in a relationship may be able to be supportive and helpful in many ways.  Some of those ways can even involve D/s.  But having a supportive partner of any variety is not going to fix a serious illness.   It's not going to end well if you try.

I'd compare this situation to someone who has been injured in an accident and needs physical rehabilitation therapy to fully recover.  A dominant partner can help by providing motivation, accountability, reward and punishment to the patient who needs to complete their rehab as the doctor has assigned.  But she can't do the surgery, nor design the rehabilitation program, unless she's also a doctor. 

Now, if we're talking about garden variety boredom eating, comfort eating or uneducated and/or lazy food choices, it is possible to use D/s, fetish, kinky or sexual motivation to teach someone to build good, sustainable, healthier habits over time.  Success won't be overnight and it won't be perfect anytime soon, but it does work remarkably well when intelligently applied. 

What I recommend to people who are good dominants but who aren't certified or credentialed is that they need to consult someone who is, and use their dominance only to reinforce and support the submissive in doing what the doctor or trainer or nutritionist ordered.   Being dominant does not grant you medical competence or a degree in sports nutrition and physiology, so if you need that variety of expertise, you'll have to go and get it before you can ethically apply it to another human being. 



_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/7/2010 11:10:25 AM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Thishereboi, thanks.  But I could stand to drop a couple more inches in the waist.  I am down about twelve or so pounds in the last couple of months, but it wouldn't hurt me to get rid of about eight more.  Vanity, vanity...

_____________________________

"The Courage to Submit: the submissive male's guide to finding a dominant woman"
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/the-courage-to-submit-the-guide-for-the-submissive-male-seeking-a-dominant-woman/5968917

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/7/2010 10:37:35 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Ya know, I just might have taken weight watchers a little more seriously if they had had legs like that


And that's what I do, in a nutshell.    It is great motivation to be sure. 


_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/8/2010 7:45:42 PM   
delicatelydirty


Posts: 126
Joined: 2/7/2010
Status: offline 		I know that Sir is happy with me the way I am but for myself (both self esteem and health) I know I need to loose quite a bit of weight, I have quite a deceptive body type that thankfully means that I don't "look" my weight (it also means that both gains and loses seem to take longer to be noticeable).

I gained quite a lot of weight last year due to physical injury and severe emotional stress, and I am now turning my life around and slowly the weight is disappearing but this has to be for me. I can't lose weight for someone else, it is a completely personal journey, I would happily accept guidance from Sir if he offered it and I must admit since we got together a new motivation is wanting to look as HOT as possible for him so he can show me off when we go out . But in the end I have to do this for myself and by myself.

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/9/2010 8:15:05 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Do tops view their bottom's physical appearance as a reflection of themselves when they take the bottom out in public (whether it be an actual BDSM activity or just to the grocery store)?
quote:



i'm going to have to say yes to this one, and only because of something that happened to me recently...

we go out of town to hicksville, usa. i'm wearing jeans, a tank top, a levi jacket and cowboy hat so i 'fit in' with the people i'm around; mind you, that's more clothes than i wear at any one time, ever!

when arriving home i was scolded for: my jeans being too tight and my perky nipples poking out from under my levi jacket.

now mind you, i'm always in tank tops, shorts and flip-flops which has always been well and good for four years, but now that we've been to hicksville and back, i see that in order to please him and represent him well, i should have worn a potato sack so no one would notice me at all.

(in reply to AspX)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/9/2010 5:53:25 PM   
afkarr


Posts: 328
Joined: 1/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds

quote:

Do tops view their bottom's physical appearance as a reflection of themselves when they take the bottom out in public (whether it be an actual BDSM activity or just to the grocery store)?
quote:



i'm going to have to say yes to this one, and only because of something that happened to me recently...

we go out of town to hicksville, usa. i'm wearing jeans, a tank top, a levi jacket and cowboy hat so i 'fit in' with the people i'm around; mind you, that's more clothes than i wear at any one time, ever!

when arriving home i was scolded for: my jeans being too tight and my perky nipples poking out from under my levi jacket.

now mind you, i'm always in tank tops, shorts and flip-flops which has always been well and good for four years, but now that we've been to hicksville and back, i see that in order to please him and represent him well, i should have worn a potato sack so no one would notice me at all.



No, No, and No, - the proper attire here in Hicksville would be flour sacks, not potatoe sacks! Wear a potatoe sack and we're going to think you are an uncouth slob with no concern about your appearance at all. Be careful not to overdo it and show off however; flowered flour sacks are for Sunday Best!

(in reply to daddysliloneds)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/9/2010 6:10:28 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		LadyNTrainer, I did have my submissive and the two Tops in question consult a doctor before making any changes to diet or exercise. I didn't attempt to set up a detailed menu for them, just worked with them on reading labels and getting healthier food in the house to start with. One thing all of them found helpful was using saucers or salad plates rather than dinner plates - they'd each had the "clean your plate" instilled early on. I stuck to common-sense stuff like that, and encouraged them to take a break if they got short of breath or felt uncomfortable during exercise. I don't claim to be a personal trainer or a nutritionist, and if the common-sense strategies I gave them hadn't worked, I would have suggested that they consult a professional.

(in reply to afkarr)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Requiring Body Transformation (Weight Loss) in a M/... - 5/9/2010 7:21:43 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
3. Eating issues are deep deep behavioral issues.  I don't consider them controllable by sex- or fetsih-orientation-based D/s.  Anyone who thinks they can top you out of your poor health has one big honking ego, without much backing it up.  (Certified personal trainers, and so on, excepted.  But we know people with actual credentials are pretty frikkin rare.)
Fair enough. But not all of our D/s relationships have anything to do with sex or a "sex oriented fetish". When you happen to have a doormat like I do, then suddenly worlds are opened up. Yes, I can "top" her out of eating disorders, fear of heights, and other things. That is the joy of such a vastly malleable personality.

Insofar as the education part, I totally agree that I wish I had certification on the relevant topics. I substituted probably a good 100 hours or more of research... and I'm a very focused researcher. I would never care to claim that I have the knowledge that a dietitian or a certified physical trainer has... but I have enough to get the job done.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 76
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