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UK Election result - 5/7/2010 4:56:26 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		We have what is known as a hung Parliament. This is when one party fails to get a clear majority with over half the seats. You need 326 seats from 650 for this.

It looks like the Conservatives will try and form a Government with the Liberals. This would mean some give and take on policies. Since they dont agree on many of the main policies they have, I think we will see another election before the end of  autumn.

Gordon Brown, as Prime Minister, remains as such, and gets first chance to form a Government. I cant see the Liberals dealing with him. Partly because of promises Labour made to the Liberals, then didnt keep, back in 1997. I therefore think Brown will resign from office within a week or so.

As I kept saying pre election, the BNP failed to get a seat. Better still, they lost many of the local council seats they held. UKIP likewise, so I think we have seen the last of them as a party. No one voted for them and they only have one main policy.

If Brown tries to cling to power, as he is entitled to do, sit back and watch the shares tumble.
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RE: UK Election result - 5/7/2010 5:27:24 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		You need to remind the American audience that the UK Liberals are a different party from Labour :-) .

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RE: UK Election result - 5/7/2010 5:28:55 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You need to remind the American audience that the UK Liberals are a different party from Labour :-) .


I havent enough years to explain it to the right wing.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/7/2010 5:43:49 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		I was oddly proud that dear old Brighton (where I was once a student) elected the first Green MP.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/7/2010 6:18:00 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Sinn Féin's Michelle Gildernew has retained her Fermanagh-South Tyrone seat by four votes after a third recount.A second recount in the early hours of this morning put Ms Gildernew, , who is the North's Minister for Agriculture, just two votes ahead of the unionist unity candidate Rodney Connor.Shortly before 3am, election officials said 21,296 votes had been counted for Mr Connor and 21,288 for Ms Gildernew and, given the difference of just eight votes, a recount was immediately called. The result of that recount put Mr Connor, with 21,295, 10 votes behind Ms Gildernew with 21,305.The results of a second recount were announced at about 4.30am, putting Ms Gildernew ahead by two votes at 21,300 to Mr Connor's 21,298.The third recount showed that of a total poll of 46,083, Ms Gildernew had won 21,304 votes to Mr Connor's 21,300. Ms Gildernew was duly declared elected.Mr Connor, a former chief executive of Fermanagh District Council, stood as an independent after the DUP and Ulster Conservatives and Unionists (UCU) agreed to run a joint unionist candidate.A number of senior Sinn Féin figures were at the count centre in Omagh, including party president Gerry Adams. The DUP's Arlene Foster and other senior unionists were also in attendance.Ms Gildernew said before the final result this afternoon the issue is "probably going to end up in court".Mr Connor said he would take legal advice./snip
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0507/breaking12.html?via=mr

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RE: UK Election result - 5/7/2010 7:21:27 PM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Pa, most voters don't give a flying fuck about the stats of an election, it is too boring, what we tend to care about is what is the end result, who won and that is all. But very interesting you should post about  Northern Ireland and Sinn Fein.

But as far as I am concerned, the election is void, that due to the fact that although people turned up to vote, they were prevented from exercising their democratic right due to failures of the electoral comission. I expect there is nothingfmajor in the prevention of voters voting regarding the results unless the majority was very tight, but to me it is imperative that those who turn up to vote as per their entitlement are permitted to do so.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 5/7/2010 7:23:05 PM >

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RE: UK Election result - 5/7/2010 7:49:33 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Well-  Polite says NI wants to be under UK rule- yet they elect Sinn Feinn.    Which seems contradictory.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/7/2010 8:02:19 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Well-  Polite says NI wants to be under UK rule- yet they elect Sinn Feinn.    Which seems contradictory.
5 out of the 18 seats in NI went Sinn Feinn...to me that confirms what politesub said.


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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 3:01:06 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		If the Lib Dems did any sort of coalition deal with the Tories they would need their heads looked at - as well as have to start recruiting new members, given the desertion that would occur. Despite what Camercon says, there is nothing in common between Lib Dem and Tory policy and approach.

The smart money is on the Lib Dems either failing to find any common ground with the Tories and the negotiations recommencing with Labour (which would be smart for the Tories) or the Lib Dems agreeing to abstain from voting on the Tory Queens' Speech (a list of what the government intends to do) and finance bill (which would be smarter for the Lib Dems). By allowing the Tories to put through the cuts and tax rises necessary - serious cuts and rises - the blame falls squarely on the Tories who, as a minority government, can be forced to another election just when the public feels the most pain.

But yet again this election has shown the fraud of our so called democracy, the first past the post system. Lib Dem got over 1/4 of the votes and yet have less than 1/10 of the seats. The Tories got the same number of votes that delivered a landslide victory to Labour in 1997, yet they are only marginally ahead of Labour and dont have a majority.

We need PR now. This is the single most important change we can make - from it flows a raft of change that will act to resolve other problems.

The argument that PR would lead to weak government and coalitions is quite ridiculous - these are arguments in favour of dictatorship and that would regard Germany as a tin pot country respectively. Perhaps in these we see the true motivations and ideas of the Tories, who alone of the three major parties stand against PR.

E

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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 3:26:32 AM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Ellen, show me a Country with PR that isnt constantly having coalitions, better yet, show me a UK coalition or hung parliament that has not only operated well, but lasted more than a year. I can only think of one in the last hundred years, excluding war times.

Your claim about the Tories having a similar percentage of the vote than Labour did in 97 is wide of the mark, but hey why let facts stop a good argument.

2010 Tories 36% of the vote
1997 labour 42% of the vote.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 3:39:19 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Gordon Brown, as Prime Minister, remains as such, and gets first chance to form a Government. I cant see the Liberals dealing with him. Partly because of promises Labour made to the Liberals, then didnt keep, back in 1997. I therefore think Brown will resign from office within a week or so.



I doubt it.

I'd be amazed were the Liberals and Conservatives able to come to an agreement.

Two big issues for the Liberal Party: electoral reform and not slashing public expenditure straight off. The Conservative Party simply can't and will not satisfy the Liberal Party on those two issues.

Which means talks with Cameron will break down and Clegg will open talks with Brown who agrees with him on the economy and public expenditure and will offer them the concession of electoral form.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 3:49:24 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		Then I suggest we appoint a dictator for life so that we have strong government. Elections are clearly a waste of time and money given that the people cant be trusted to know what they want let alone whats good for them, as well them representing a potential for change that is disruptive.

Yes, it was a hole big enough to see but likely wouldnt be - so of around 70% turnout, only 36% voted Tory - so 64% didnt vote Tory of those who voted. Clearly this means a majority did not vote for the Tories, indicating that they should "obviously" form a government what with such a small minority of support - 36% of those who voted, 25% of the electorate.

This is wrong. So obviously and clearly wrong that I cant believe anyone would argue to the contrary. It makes an utter mockery of any notion we are a democracy. It likely also explains why turnout is poor, the disinterest in politics and the decline in civic society that plays into "broken Britain".

To argue against PR on the basis of a one or two bad experiences of coalition is equally ridiculous. Not only the examples of successful European models demonstrate this but also successful models worldwide. If one wants to argue that PR is bad because coalitions are bad then one must explain why it works elsewhere but may not here - and then one is left with the conclusion that the arrogance and stupidity of our politicans and their attachment to a criminal system are the only explanations.

E

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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 4:32:28 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Yes, it was a hole big enough to see but likely wouldnt be - so of around 70% turnout, only 36% voted Tory - so 64% didnt vote Tory of those who voted. Clearly this means a majority did not vote for the Tories, indicating that they should "obviously" form a government what with such a small minority of support - 36% of those who voted, 25% of the electorate.



You want it both ways. The Tories clearly had the most votes, that is the democratic process. No other party had a bigger support, yet you seem to be claiming that they should lead the government. I dont see how you call the party with the most votes a dictatorship. I am guessing if Clegg was in Camerons position you would be cock-a-hoop.

It was also interesting to note that you swerved the point on previously hung UK Parliaments.

NG, Clegg announced he will try and support the party who won the most votes. If a deal is done between them Brown will go soon after. He wont get the grassroot support from the Labour party.

I still cant see a coalition party lasting longer than a year.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 4:45:57 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		The Tories got 36% of the vote by your own admission

This clearly indicates that 64% did not vote for them.

How you can then, with an apparently straight face, say that it should be regarded as democratic for the Tories to form a government is beyond me.

My impression was that in a democracy the decisions were made according to majority support for a motion. 36% is not a majority by any measure.

Yet you would support this corrupt mechanism, which is clearly incompatible with democratic principles.

E


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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 5:27:53 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

NG, Clegg announced he will try and support the party who won the most votes. If a deal is done between them Brown will go soon after. He wont get the grassroot support from the Labour party.



He did....though he didn't state the conditions that would turn 'try' into 'will'...though it's fair to assume electoral reform is one and his economic plans is another.

I can't see how they can come to an agreement on their key policies...simply because they do not agree. Whereas the Lib Dems do have some common ground with Labour on the key areas.

I think it's a wise move to speak to the Tories first: a) it gives him more room for manouevre with Labour....playing one off against the other b) in the public eye he will appear to be open to options and as he has painted himself as a pragmatist in areas such as immigration...then I believe that's how he'd like to be seen.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 5:32:19 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The Tories got 36% of the vote by your own admission

This clearly indicates that 64% did not vote for them.

How you can then, with an apparently straight face, say that it should be regarded as democratic for the Tories to form a government is beyond me.

My impression was that in a democracy the decisions were made according to majority support for a motion. 36% is not a majority by any measure.

Yet you would support this corrupt mechanism, which is clearly incompatible with democratic principles.

E



Dont be so stupid. You assumes that all those who didnt vote Tory want Brown in power, which begs the question, why didnt they vote for him. And yes, a democracy means you vote for x amount of candidates, and the one with the most votes wins. Despite your skewed thinking.

And you still havent answered me on the question of previous UK coalitions that have worked.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 5:38:16 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

NG, Clegg announced he will try and support the party who won the most votes. If a deal is done between them Brown will go soon after. He wont get the grassroot support from the Labour party.



He did....though he didn't state the conditions that would turn 'try' into 'will'...though it's fair to assume electoral reform is one and his economic plans is another.

I can't see how they can come to an agreement on their key policies...simply because they do not agree. Whereas the Lib Dems do have some common ground with Labour on the key areas.

I think it's a wise move to speak to the Tories first: a) it gives him more room for manouevre with Labour....playing one off against the other b) in the public eye he will appear to be open to options and as he has painted himself as a pragmatist in areas such as immigration...then I believe that's how he'd like to be seen.


Breaking reprts of Brown ranting at Clegg during a phone call late last night. This comes from the BBC saying it was a high placed source in the LibDems. This is now denied by both parties but I am guess there is some merit to it, for the story to break in the first place.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7695794/General-Election-2010-Gordon-Brown-launched-telephone-rant-at-Nick-Clegg.html

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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 5:48:42 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		Well......working with the Tories was not in the script...and I for one will not be voting for them again in the event they do work with them.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 5:58:52 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Well......working with the Tories was not in the script...and I for one will not be voting for them again in the event they do work with them.


I appreciate your view on this. I am guessing many Liberals would be more pro Labour than pro Tory. Is it a case that more Labour policies appeal to you, or are you just anti Tory ?

Oddly enough i read a fair bit of all the three manifestos, each one had bits I supported and bits that i didnt.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/8/2010 6:12:13 AM   
fannypistor


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Britain needs discipline!

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