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RE: UK Election result - 5/11/2010 1:08:43 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
*wonders if my native american, scot, irish, welsh ancestry is clouding my opinion.



None probably, just the prat part of you talking.

Seriously, you think you have any idea, just because you might have somewhere in your past some vague dna of some ancestor from the UK?  I just love when people who don't live here and who claim they seem to know it all just because they want to have some sort of ancient past that they neither understand nor - in all likelyhood - even participated with.
And I say that as a woman with Irish blood, not just some jumped up notion or wish of 'ancestory'.

the.dark.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/11/2010 1:15:45 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

PM Brown resigns.


Both as PM and Labour leader, effective from now.

LibDems and Conservatives have both had to compromise to be able to work together.

Interesting times ahead. This should be more stable than a Labour/LibDem pact, since they command a majority vote in the Commons. Tax could be the sticking point. Voting reform isnt so important as cutting the defecit and I think Clegg sees this. I suspect several top jobs to go to the Liberals to keep them on board.



Everyone on this planet is talking of 'cutting the deficit' in their respective countries - no disagreement there.

In terms of how it's done - it's only 2 weeks back Vince Cable defined Tory plans for the deficit as 'dangerous and irresponsible'. God only knows how this lot are going to keep it together.

I'm gobsmacked really....

Europe....the economy....immigration....electoral reform....taxation.....defence....how on earth do you come up with a plan when you don't agree on anything? And they ain't just going to fall into line 'in the national interest'....they're in politics to win.

The amazing thing is that 3/4 of the Liberal Party's members have to support the leader...so I'm curious as to what they've been offered.....what is it that has appealed to the majority of a party who instinctively are anti-Tory.....and I can't imagine it being very much because Cameron will be lynched by his party and activists where he gives ground on the likes of Europe and immigration.

I mean....Europe....the Tories just don't think they're worthy.....and I don't think that's an overstatement....probably an understatement.....and the Liberal Party is pro-European....they talk of a shared history/culture/destiny etc......the Tories don't even know where Europe is and care less......so how do they come to an agreement?

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RE: UK Election result - 5/11/2010 2:02:12 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
*wonders if my native american, scot, irish, welsh ancestry is clouding my opinion.



None probably, just the prat part of you talking.

Seriously, you think you have any idea, just because you might have somewhere in your past some vague dna of some ancestor from the UK?  I just love when people who don't live here and who claim they seem to know it all just because they want to have some sort of ancient past that they neither understand nor - in all likelyhood - even participated with.
And I say that as a woman with Irish blood, not just some jumped up notion or wish of 'ancestory'.

the.dark.


Actually, it is not all that ancient, just a couple of generations.  And I was making a joke, just like saying that the problems in the United States is due to 200+ years of bad karma.

The fact that the UK has multiple political parties to deal with does make the problems in the US seem a bit more manageable, at least on the surface.  Although within those two parties are divisions that range from regional to philosophy.  For example, democrats from heavily urban areas are anti-gun while members of the same party from more rural areas are pro-gun.

The conservative Republicans have a full range from moderates to the religious right and ultra conservative right wing.

Our system is probably confusing to you as your system is confusing to us.  As I understand it, it has been a number of years since there was the need for a coalition government.


< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 5/11/2010 2:04:43 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: UK Election result - 5/11/2010 2:48:03 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		The key difference between the United Kingdom and the United States is that we have an unwritten constitution and you have one mapped out in great detail. There are strengths and weaknesses - in theory you know where you stand as everyone has clear guidelines - in practice we have proven to be a creative nation enabled by a culture of confusion and a 'light touch'.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: UK Election result - 5/11/2010 4:07:40 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I think the long term outcome will change British politics. All parties can see they have to move towards the centre. Cameron will slowly change some Conservative policy to this effect, Clegg likewise.

We will see in a few days what trade offs there have been, but the fact remains each leader has managed to push them through his party. On tonights news it said they both want to announce fixed 5 year terms. Cameron is also willing to have Liberals in his cabinet ( Unlike the Lib/Lab pact ) He is also dropping plans to increase the inheritance tax threshold and will use the money to increase the tax thresholds at the lowest end of the scale.

From what I can gather, Single Transfer Vote, as wanted by the Liberals, and The Alternative Vote, as offered by the Conservatives, are quite different things. They will reach a balance on this given time, but for now I suspect it is on the back burner. Both parties are talking of a written constitution, like the Magna Carta, this will probably be a mix of what exists with some new initiatives. I havent heard any more about the amnesty for asylum seekers.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 12:05:08 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Our system is probably confusing to you as your system is confusing to us.  As I understand it, it has been a number of years since there was the need for a coalition government.



The 'system' isn't that confusing for me personally, although I do understand why people struggle with it's concept.  But then I find many people don't understand the size of constituancies either, and that plays a part.  Hopefully they can come to some agreement that doesn't bias any party which both are offering do right now.

the.dark.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 12:09:58 AM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Conservatives in power......Oh fuck !!!

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RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 2:45:51 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Conservatives in power......Oh fuck !!!


Democracy in action.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 6:32:37 AM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		But are we in fact a democracy that is the question, for I read elsewhere it is not.

But, a Lib/tory coalition it seems we have  like it or not, but they together talk of a new kind of government and Cameron despite him being a tory, I hear elsewhere he is a lightweight, so perhaps, maybe  the coalition between the two will work out, we shall have to wait and see on that.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 5/12/2010 6:35:59 AM >

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 6:36:10 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		On a completely trivial tangent, the physical resemblance between Cameron and Clegg is striking. They're like clones.






Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 6:37:31 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I myself had noticed that, young too, which might be to our advantage.

But having just watched the two of them addressing the nation via the press with birdsong in the back ground does send out a degree of positive thought, and it was interesting when they were questioned by the press, they did not down the outgoing government, which was refreshing to hear. But with clegg up there with the tories, I do have a positive feeling about this alliance so far, but then, it is only the first day. Time will tell, but they deserve positive thought for getting this far.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 5/12/2010 6:55:23 AM >

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 7:10:40 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

On a completely trivial tangent, the physical resemblance between Cameron and Clegg is striking. They're like clones.






For some reason that picture has me thinking of Doctor Who...



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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 7:25:43 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

On a completely trivial tangent, the physical resemblance between Cameron and Clegg is striking. They're like clones.







Yeah but kittin, ya gotta be digging the 'fashionable' party coloured ties.

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 5/12/2010 7:26:38 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 8:13:58 AM   
subtee


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Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		So how would you Brits compare your election process to the U.S.? What is better/worse about it?

I cannot imagine the reps and dems here forming a coalition to order lunch, so this is really interesting.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 8:42:29 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		We need VC and her venn diagrams.
Just imagine one with two circles that meet in the middle.  Labour in the left one, Conservatives in the right with the lib Dems in the bit in the middle.
Well, that's kinda how it is.

the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 9:00:49 AM   
tigreetsa


Posts: 132
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: SW London
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Conservatives in power......Oh fuck !!!


Democracy in action.


Democracy in action? Are you sure?

It would have greatly helped if the media hadn't put so much pressure on the Lib Dems and Conservatives to do a deal quickly but no, the City were getting impatient, and the media were forecasting doom and gloom if this wasn't settled quickly.

Nick Clegg backtracked and Gordon Brown bottled out. I strongly believe that a very important opportunity to change our political system was lost.

The thing is, in two years, more so in five years time nobody's going to remember any of these headlines from May 2010.

What are we left with? Well pretty much the same as before, the banks and media in control of the country and our government run by two outdated political parties - Labour and the Conservatives - who served people well in the past but who have been outdated also for years.

The Conservatives are one step ahead with David Cameron who I believe is changing the Conservatives and he does by his words appear to be in touch with the issues. But it's a difficult challenge for him, Nick Clegg and both the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats. If they get it wrong, I don't think the media will hesitate and stirring up public opinion to get the people to demand changes.

We can see how the media were so against Gordon Brown and his leaving politics is a great loss to the country. Without a shadow of a doubt the Labour Party needs to reinvent itself and I don't believe that changing their leader to David Milliband is enough. Just as the Conservatives are moving on from Thatcherism I feel that Labour needs to ditch its links with the trade unions.

I actually believe that there is still a chance for electoral reform and that would be through a split in the Labour Party, where a new left wing party could emerge in the mould of the left wing pragmatism of Ken Livingstone leaving behind New Labour to move centre left which would effectively break up the old two party system leading to greater diversity in our political system. If this was mirrored by a similar split in the Conservative Party spawning an offshoot to the right then this could perhaps provide a more moderate alternative to the BNP and take in the disaffected voters on the far right.

This would lead to perhaps more coalition governments, but I feel it would mean much more political diversity and certainly much more democracy than we have now. It would also break the strangehold the media have over influencing our elections in our outdated two party left vs. right political system. But most of all, it would more accurately represent everyone in our modern British society.


_____________________________

'There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I we've been through that
And that is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late.'
All Along The Watchtower (Bob Dylan)

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 9:19:58 AM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		I seem to have been much mistaken, looks like con-lib government had much more support afterall.

I'm....pretty optomistic about it myself. I have a habit of not believing a word that comes out of the slimy bastards mouth, to the extent that I can barely listen to anything he says without muting the box....but on the off chance he means what they've been saying.....I'm very much liking the way things are going.


@subtee...our parliamentary system is IMO immeasurably better than the american presidential. The most concise point I can think to make is the allowing of voting for 3rd (and 4th, 5th...10th) parties without fucking things up. When people in Brighton elected the Greens, it didn't hurt labour (or libs) chances, or favour the tories at all....with the usa electoral college, if a state went libertarian instead of republican, it would (probably) just hand the presidency to the democrats. The parties having leaders all the time instead of 'primaries' (IIRC) for each just before the main election also helps a lot IMO....people have had the chance to watch Clegg and Cameron as PM candidates, and leaders, working in parliament for years...and the lack of an all or nothing election such as the presidential, helps reduce the build up of such incredible bile between parties.

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RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 9:20:07 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

So how would you Brits compare your election process to the U.S.? What is better/worse about it?

I cannot imagine the reps and dems here forming a coalition to order lunch, so this is really interesting.

The main difference is that we elect members of parliament rather than voting for a President. A general election just means that every seat in the Commons is voted on.

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 9:23:17 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
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Status: offline 		Mr. Cameron's first order of business will be to institute massive spending cuts to put the nations finances back on track. Mr. Obama and the democrats should be doing exactly the same thing here. Unfortunatly we are going in the opposite direction.

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: UK Election result - 5/12/2010 9:26:09 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		We all know how much you love to drag everything back to Obama, but you need to get over it - this is about the UNITED KINGDOM election results, thank you very much nonetheless, and blah blah blah  .

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