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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 8:30:17 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I was responding to misfits question. Why didn't he just resign ?


Good question.

I would guess he was after his 15 minutes of fame.

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 8:54:47 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Nor did it seem to matter that the REPUBLICAN governor of Hawaii had the state's attorney general examine the original, verify its authenticity AND agreed that President Obama had indeed been born in the state of Hawaii.

Oh, and the birth announcement published in the local newspaper means nothing as well.



Well, I'm not a "birther", I'm fairly confident that Obama is a citizen.  But ....

the REPUBLICAN governor of Hawaii had the state's attorney general examine the original,

So now you trust a politician, and a bureaucrat?  What do you know about either of them? 

The birth announcement in the paper occurred, I've no doubt.  Proves nothing.

And, you know, really, the biggest thing that wiggles around in all that empty space in my head is:  If it's no big damn deal, and Obama is well aware of all the stuff swirling around about his BC ... why not just allow the Hawaiian "Burea of Vital Statistics" or whatever it is, to just release a copy to the public?

Case closed, Theorists discredited, done.

Unless, of course, he has a vested interest in being to able to use the issue to paint any of his opponents as "birthers' and thereby having a method to help discredit the political opposition to him ...

Interesting speculation.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 5/10/2010 8:56:18 PM >

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:03:56 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


Well, I'm not a "birther", I'm fairly confident that Obama is a citizen.  But ....

the REPUBLICAN governor of Hawaii had the state's attorney general examine the original,

So now you trust a politician, and a bureaucrat?  What do you know about either of them? 

The birth announcement in the paper occurred, I've no doubt.  Proves nothing.

And, you know, really, the biggest thing that wiggles around in all that empty space in my head is:  If it's no big damn deal, and Obama is well aware of all the stuff swirling around about his BC ... why not just allow the Hawaiian "Burea of Vital Statistics" or whatever it is, to just release a copy to the public?

Case closed, Theorists discredited, done.

Unless, of course, he has a vested interest in being to able to use the issue to paint any of his opponents as "birthers' and thereby having a method to help discredit the political opposition to him ...

Interesting speculation.

Firm


So in your usual disingenuous manner you are claiming you believe he is a citizen while putting forth an argument that he is not.

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.

snopes.com: Barack Obama Birth Certificate

And in yet another attempt at your fledgling career in stand-up comedy you are trying to say that Obama himself is behind these rumors.




< Message edited by rulemylife -- 5/10/2010 9:08:46 PM >

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:05:20 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


Well, I'm not a "birther", I'm fairly confident that Obama is a citizen.  But ....




I'm fairly confident because you are only "fairly confident" that you are kind of a birther.....Just say it!!!

You know you want to. You really don't want to believe it.

Unbelievable.

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:07:28 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Unless, of course, he has a vested interest in being to able to use the issue to paint any of his opponents as "birthers' and thereby having a method to help discredit the political opposition to him ...

Interesting speculation.

Firm


You canNOT waste a crisis Firm!  Did you not get the memo? 

Sheesh!  One of the first comments of this issue played the race card.  Why do you THINK that he is loving this nonsense up?

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:09:02 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


Well, I'm not a "birther", I'm fairly confident that Obama is a citizen.  But ....




I'm fairly confident because you are only "fairly confident" that you are kind of a birther.....Just say it!!!

You know you want to. You really don't want to believe it.

Unbelievable.


I'm fairly confident that GW Bush is an American citizen as well.

But I've no first hand knowledge.

I'm fairly confident that you are an American citizen as well.

But I've no first hand knowledge.

I know that I'm an American citizen. 

I've seen the BC.

Firm


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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:09:47 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		It's moot.  His orders stem from his commanding officer, and so on up the chain.  He is disobeying a direct order from his commanders, and the fact that he "thinks" that the guy at the top isn't legitimate in no way invalidates the entire chain of command.

He is a deserter who saw Afghanistan and decided he didn't want to go there again, and came up with what he thought was a plausible argument.

There is NO WAY that he will win in court.  Can you imagine the precedent of being able to defy direct orders if you have an issue with the President?


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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:12:22 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Point is, this officer has served through the last three presidents. Its not been till now that he has refused to follow a command because he wasnt sure of the presidents legal status to command. Oddly enough, he never questioned the previous presidents.

so very fishy... lol

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:18:51 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


Well, I'm not a "birther", I'm fairly confident that Obama is a citizen.  But ....




I'm fairly confident because you are only "fairly confident" that you are kind of a birther.....Just say it!!!

You know you want to. You really don't want to believe it.

Unbelievable.


I'm fairly confident that GW Bush is an American citizen as well.

But I've no first hand knowledge.

I'm fairly confident that you are an American citizen as well.

But I've no first hand knowledge.

I know that I'm an American citizen. 

I've seen the BC.

Firm




You are being disingenuous now......You are 100% sure, just like I am that G W Bush is an American citizen.

I would bet my life on it and so would you.

If someone said to me that they would give me a mere one thousand dollars if Bush is a citizen but they could kill me if he is not.....I am taking their one thousand bucks. It's a sure thing.

You know that as well as I.

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:27:33 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So in your usual disingenuous manner you are claiming you believe he is a citizen while putting forth an argument that he is not.

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.

snopes.com: Barack Obama Birth Certificate

And in yet another attempt at your fledgling career in stand-up comedy you are trying to say that Obama himself is behind these rumors.


rule,

You miss the point.  Again.

I don't need any links.  I looked into it when it first came up.

I had two points:

1. How people who normally "question" authority (when the party in power is one that does not agree with their political philosophy) becomes the most trustful SOB around when the party in power hews to their political ideology?  (notice the word shift there?)

2.  That, since I believe that Obama is indeed an American citizen ("believe" means I don't have absolute proof, just think that it's reasonable and highly probable), and he could easily quell all the crap going around, that he obviously has a reason not to. 

What could that reason be?  It could just be a high value on privacy. 

You read his books? That's not the reason.

What other reason can anyone think of?  Is there some potential embarrassing data?  What?  His mother isn't his mother?  Not likely.  His father was a black "fureiner"?  Nope.

He only weighed 5 lbs 7 ounces and not 5 lbs 9 ozs?  Nope.

So, eliminating privacy and embarrassing personal information, and being "fairly confident" that it does indeed show that he is an American citizen .... what reasons can you think of, that he would continually refuse to release an actual copy of the BC?

The first two that come to mind are: 

1. He enjoys watching American citizens rant and being ridiculed ("Look!  Michelle!  I got another one, this one is gonna get Court Martialed!" *chortle!*, *snot*, *chortle!*).

2.  It serves a political purpose.

So, unless you believe that Obama has a sadistic streak in him, we seem to be left with one option only.

Your thoughts?

Firm

 


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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:36:20 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

You are being disingenuous now......You are 100% sure, just like I am that G W Bush is an American citizen.

I would bet my life on it and so would you.

If someone said to me that they would give me a mere one thousand dollars if Bush is a citizen but they could kill me if he is not.....I am taking their one thousand bucks. It's a sure thing.

You know that as well as I.


Perhaps we just have different life experiences when it comes to trust and our definitions of "believe" and "know".

I am rarely "100%" sure about anything.

I generally live on operational beliefs about "facts".  Theories of reality that are subject to change, if better, more creditable evidence (after evaluation) is shown to be more accurate and better explain the reality I see. (This is called "an open mind" btw)

I'm fairly confident about a lot of things.  Somewhat confident about a lot of others.  Willing to work on the assumption for other things. Not likely to believe some things at all.

And for some damn things, it doesn't matter what I believe.  Or you, or anyone else.

Just food for thought, domi.

Firm


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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:40:01 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Unless, of course, he has a vested interest in being to able to use the issue to paint any of his opponents as "birthers' and thereby having a method to help discredit the political opposition to him ...

Interesting speculation.

Firm


You canNOT waste a crisis Firm!  Did you not get the memo? 

Sheesh!  One of the first comments of this issue played the race card.  Why do you THINK that he is loving this nonsense up?




See my post above to rule.

Firm

edited: because clarity is sometimes a real bitch this late.


< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 5/10/2010 10:35:18 PM >

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:48:49 PM   
SeaviewBridge


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Status: offline 		Lt. Col. Terry Lakin...simply one of the millions of sore ass bitter LOSERS unable to accept their political party being tossed out after such a fine, honorable, productive 8 years in power.

Boo Fuckin Hoo

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:51:53 PM   
ShaharThorne


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Status: offline 		Suddenly I am getting an image...

Its Jeff Dunham and Walter!!!

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 9:57:54 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaviewBridge

Lt. Col. Terry Lakin...simply one of the millions of sore ass bitter LOSERS unable to accept their political party being tossed out after such a fine, honorable, productive 8 years in power.

Boo Fuckin Hoo


Expound, please.

You are new here, so I'd like to understand where you are coming from.



Before I kick your ass (metaphysically, of course) 

Firm


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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 10:17:36 PM   
SeaviewBridge


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Status: offline 		Only new here...

As you have manners and civility, I'll do what I can to clarify my post.

It's an opinion.

And for some damn things, it doesn't matter what I believe. Or you, or anyone else.

Maybe that'll help you.




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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 10:26:55 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaviewBridge

Only new here...

I know.  I checked your profile before I posted.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaviewBridge

As you have manners and civility, I'll do what I can to clarify my post.

Thank you.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaviewBridge

It's an opinion.

I understand that.  What is it based on?


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaviewBridge

And for some damn things, it doesn't matter what I believe. Or you, or anyone else.

True.  But if I state an opinion, I will generally give the reasons for that opinion.

That's basically what I'm asking. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaviewBridge

Maybe that'll help you.

Not yet.  Hopefully soon.

Firm

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 11:19:41 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY



See my post above to rule.

Firm

edited: because clarity is sometimes a real bitch this late.



Okay.  I think that he is letting this go on because he can make political hay from it.  It gives Pres. Obama an 'enemy.'  When people are secretive about things it leads to all sorts of wild speculation.  It also allows him or his supporters to play the race card. 

However, we would be having the same or at least a similar issue had McCain been elected. 

I believe that this whole thing is political smoke and mirrors.  I also believe that this Lt. Col. is being used.  In this case he is "Roe," as you have to have a personal standing in a court case. 

I hope that made sense. 

< Message edited by Aylee -- 5/10/2010 11:20:20 PM >

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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 11:21:38 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

From NBC's Jim Miklaszewski and Mark Murray
U.S. military officials tell NBC News that the U.S. Army will court martial a lieutenant colonel who refuses to deploy to Afghanistan because he considers orders from President Obama to be "illegal." Army doctor Lt. Col. Terry Lakin believes Obama does not meet the constitutional requirements to be president and commander-in-chief, because he believes (incorrectly) that Obama wasn't born in the United States. Lakin refused this week to report to Fort Campbell, KY for deployment to Afghanistan, but instead showed up at the Pentagon, where he was confronted by his brigade Commander Col. Gordon Roberts, a Vietnam Medal of Honor recipient. Lakin was informed by Roberts that he would face court martial, and his Pentagon building pass and government laptop computer were seized.


Okay, this is going to be interesting.  Considering that he and his attorney appeared on AC360, and the defense attorney claimed that the certificate of live birth as issued by the state of Hawaii is not proof of birth in the state.

Nor did it seem to matter that the REPUBLICAN governor of Hawaii had the state's attorney general examine the original, verify its authenticity AND agreed that President Obama had indeed been born in the state of Hawaii.

Oh, and the birth announcement published in the local newspaper means nothing as well.



Just a coward using the President to hide his cowardice.


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RE: Army to court martial 'birther' officer - 5/10/2010 11:38:52 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Okay.  I think that he is letting this go on because he can make political hay from it.  It gives Pres. Obama an 'enemy.'  When people are secretive about things it leads to all sorts of wild speculation.  It also allows him or his supporters to play the race card. 


Sounds plausible to me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

However, we would be having the same or at least a similar issue had McCain been elected. 

Oh Lordie!

I can "hear" the KOS kids now ... "Panama!  Panama!  It's never been the US!  It was an imperialist satrap!  This means that by international law, the US was an occupying, oppressor nation, and all their laws are invalid!  McCain is the personification of the sins of imperialism!  Death to running dogs!"

That would be one of the more reasoned comments. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I believe that this whole thing is political smoke and mirrors.  I also believe that this Lt. Col. is being used.  In this case he is "Roe," as you have to have a personal standing in a court case. 

This I don't get.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I hope that made sense. 


All except the last bit.  But I'm tired and going to bed, so I'll let it go for a couple of days.  I'm interested in what you may think.

Thanks Aylee.

Firm


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