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RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:31:56 AM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

again, bring god to the witness stand, so we may have his view on who trumps who and what trumps what.


You got up today.   There is your proof.


it is not a necessary and sufficient proof of anything.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:32:30 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

no, since inalienable or unalienable is not part of our constitution or law.  nor is it part of englands.   if one ceases proceding from false premises, the matter is cleared up instantly.


ok so definitions out of ye ole law books that indisputably show you are wrong mean nothing to you.

Its what ron says it is to hell with reality LOL


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:34:55 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

again, bring god to the witness stand, so we may have his view on who trumps who and what trumps what.


You got up today.   There is your proof.


it is not a necessary and sufficient proof of anything.


so the govt made you get up?

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:35:21 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
LAST CHANCE TO ANSWER THIS:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

So anyone who is born on this soil as in one of the 50, is under the constitution.

yes or no.

you just said it both ways and it cant be both ways.

I most certainly did not say anything both ways. y
last time ron yes or no.

I fucking told you yes.
(oh and that goes for ANYONE else who wishes to try and save him! :)
I dont need any saving from your ignorance, only you do.




_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:36:34 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

again, bring god to the witness stand, so we may have his view on who trumps who and what trumps what.


You got up today.   There is your proof.


it is not a necessary and sufficient proof of anything.


so the govt made you get up?


no, did god make you a fucking imbicile? 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:37:18 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

INALIENABLE
inalienable,adj. Not transferable or assignable <inalienable property interests>. — Also termed unalienable.

inalienable right.A right that cannot be transferred or surrendered; esp., a natural right such as the right to own property. — Also termed inherent right.



RealOne.....John Locke didn't have the definitive answer.....his theory was a response to the issues of the day...which were:

a) A growing middle/merchant class in England.
b) Opposition to the French state's control over French trade and revenue.
c) Widespread religious and civil strife.
d) The opening up of the Americas.

What all of these demanded was a system where people in England were free to chase their individual business initiatives. So you had people like Locke who responded to the issues of the day.....with focus on property and the protection of property.

In 300 years time....the concept of 'unalienable rights' will be forgotten....as ideas evolve.

And most importantly...whatever you say theoretically speaking about some rights......just doesn't hold water when the evidence is that the thing that affords aspiration is your personal work ethic and the law you help create....rather than some claim to an inherent say in anything.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:37:35 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

again, bring god to the witness stand, so we may have his view on who trumps who and what trumps what.


You got up today.   There is your proof.


it is not a necessary and sufficient proof of anything.


so the govt made you get up?


no, did god make you a fucking imbicile? 


God made me the way I am.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:39:08 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

no, since inalienable or unalienable is not part of our constitution or law.  nor is it part of englands.   if one ceases proceding from false premises, the matter is cleared up instantly.


ok so definitions out of ye ole law books that indisputably show you are wrong mean nothing to you.

Its what ron says it is to hell with reality LOL



Ye old law books do not say you have unalienable or inalienable rights. They show the legal definition of the word.  I suspect you can also find the words ignorant and fellator in them, and I guess that makes you one, since those words are defined in the law books. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:39:09 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		In the past century govts have killed millions of people.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:40:25 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		never god though...........well thats a sort of problem for you since that would mean the government has more unalienable rights than god, especially if god hasn't killed more than governments for no apparent reason.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 5/15/2010 9:41:57 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:43:23 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Who do you bow before?   God or the state?

WHO?



I suppose the state considering I live by the laws of the land....but then I have the option to change the government through my vote. I'd like to think that I wouldn't go out and kill someone were there no civilisiling institutions knocking around...but then that would be a bit presumptuous as take away those civilising institutions and we'd be a collection of villages fighting to the death over the fattest woman in the village or something.



_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:44:28 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

again, bring god to the witness stand, so we may have his view on who trumps who and what trumps what.


You got up today.   There is your proof.


it is not a necessary and sufficient proof of anything.


why would God have to prove anything?  God isnt making the statement the Sovereign is.

you got a really twisted sense of how law works


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:44:57 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Which, NG, I believe at one time we were.   And still are, I should think, with a little more polish and poise and other trappings than we had in the halcyon days of yore.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:46:12 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

again, bring god to the witness stand, so we may have his view on who trumps who and what trumps what.


You got up today.   There is your proof.


it is not a necessary and sufficient proof of anything.


why would God have to prove anything?  God isnt making the statement the Sovereign is.

you got a really twisted sense of how law works



What statement is the Sovereign making? Who is the Sovereign?   

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 9:57:14 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

INALIENABLE
inalienable,adj. Not transferable or assignable <inalienable property interests>. — Also termed unalienable.

inalienable right.A right that cannot be transferred or surrendered; esp., a natural right such as the right to own property. — Also termed inherent right.



RealOne.....John Locke didn't have the definitive answer.....his theory was a response to the issues of the day...which were:

a) A growing middle/merchant class in England.
b) Opposition to the French state's control over French trade and revenue.
c) Widespread religious and civil strife.
d) The opening up of the Americas.

What all of these demanded was a system where people in England were free to chase their individual business initiatives. So you had people like Locke who responded to the issues of the day.....with focus on property and the protection of property.

In 300 years time....the concept of 'unalienable rights' will be forgotten....as ideas evolve.

And most importantly...whatever you say theoretically speaking about some rights......just doesn't hold water when the evidence is that the thing that affords aspiration is your personal work ethic and the law you help create....rather than some claim to an inherent say in anything.


Woah there!

I did not restrict this to "locke", and I wont allow you to box it in like that either.  The law was not created by locke, and of course we can go black through your lords one after another who all had their own philosophies concerning law and as esquires to the crown always in favor of the crown.

We all know of course that the "crown" is nothing more than a trust account.

Which now brings us to what "theory" of no rights do you have?

The problem here when in the final analysis we will both end up in the wonderful world of metaphysics and then theology which will take up right back to the source, God, regardless which route we want to approach it from.

Unalienable rights are the basis of all law and without it there is NO law.

Ideas are grown from propaganda and what you are talking about when you trod that direction is "popular *opinion*" that changes every day dependent on how drunk people are.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 10:05:37 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
What statement is the Sovereign making? Who is the Sovereign?   


a declaration and claim of right.

really simple shit.

First for the sake of an argument lets burn the constitution for this example:

I, the Sovereign, by prerogative and claim of absolute right declare I have the natural right to free speech.

Here is your opportunity to shut it down atheist; show us where you think I dont.






_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 10:12:06 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

In the past century govts have killed millions of people.


never god though...........well thats a sort of problem for you since that would mean the government has more unalienable rights than god, especially if god hasn't killed more than governments for no apparent reason.


you are really thick headed and twisted you know that?

When a government kills people its a VIOLATION of the peoples rights, not a justification for governments rights.

GOVERNMENTS HAVE NO RIGHTS WHAT SO EVER, NEVER DID NEVER WILL!!!

well not as long as there are people like me around anyway.

ONLY PEOPLE CAN HAVE RIGHTS! and that is as fundamental as the blood pumping in our veins.



.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 10:55:31 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
LAST CHANCE TO ANSWER THIS:

So anyone who is born on this soil as in one of the 50, is under the constitution.

yes or no.

you just said it both ways and it cant be both ways.

I most certainly did not say anything both ways. y
last time ron yes or no.

I fucking told you yes.
(oh and that goes for ANYONE else who wishes to try and save him! :)
I dont need any saving from your ignorance, only you do.





way to bury it in a quote and making sure it did not stand out.   LMAO

well I seen it you sneak and it stands out now.

ok so you claim that anyone born on this soil is "automatically" under the constitution.  

SO WE ARE UNDER A MONARCHY THEN.

The second you popped out of your chattel slave mother you were born into a contract under the constitution EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS IN A FEUDAL SOCIETY OF A MONARCHY (THE UK).


I dont know how you managed to fuck up the quotes like that but I fixed it.


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/15/2010 11:06:48 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 11:12:58 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		be careful.   someone might vote.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Democracy or Republic -- Which Gives Gays More Rights? - 5/15/2010 11:30:21 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

sure got awful quiet in here now didnt it

truth can be so painful to some!

google is on overload! LMAO


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 80
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