Real0ne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
quote:
ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Unalienable rights are the basis of all law and without it there is NO law.
I mentioned Locke as an example of how ideas follow circumstance as opposed to a set principle/set of ideas that define human existence.
You mean the concept of unalienable rights...entirely different to the existence of unalienable rights.....which has been around a few hundred years or so....while god's children have been roaming the earth for a fair bit longer.....either god was asleep for a long time or sat in a jaccuzi with a few of his angels enjoying an almighty session.....or god isn't really much of a factor in the evolution of ideas and the way we do things.
So....last time I suppose as time is ticking away.....how can the right to owning property be an unalienable right.....when said property can quite easily be taken away?...how can liberty be an unalienable right when liberty is an abstract notion that can't be defined in terms of consensus and even then I'd wager that were you to give me your definition of liberty I'd be able to give you an example of liberty (as defined by you) as being stamped out?
ok locke as an example not an authority I can accept.
Well I think you need to accept that the definitions I put up here are right out of the law books not "my" definitions.
Ron is the one putting his definitions on things out here not me, I am sticking with convention. Law dictionary definitions.
Now we can argue they differ somewhat....but for these purposes I an not sure there is a point that.
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CIVIL LIBERTY civil liberty.(usu. pl.) Freedom from undue governmental interference or restraint.
This term usu. refers to freedom of speech or religion.
In American law, early civil liberties were promulgated in the Lawes and Libertyes of Massachusetts (1648) and the Bill of Rights (1791).
In English law, examples are found in Magna Carta (1215), the Petition of Right (1628), and the Bill of Rights (1689). - Also termed civil right. [Cases: Civil Rights 1027. C.J.S. Civil Rights §§ 4-5, 8, 13.]
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CLAIM OF LIBERTY claim of liberty.Hist. A petition to the Crown, filed in the Court of Exchequer, seeking the Attorney General's confirmation of liberties and franchises.
isnt it kool we both have attorney generals? Shire riefs?
ok so I am not sure where you want to take this but here is liberty for you
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LIBERTY liberty. 1. Freedom from arbitrary or undue external restraint, esp. by a government <give me liberty or give me death>.2. A right, privilege, or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant; the absence of a legal duty imposed on a person <the liberties protected by the Constitution>.
[Cases: Constitutional Law 83, 254.1. C.J.S. Constitutional Law §§ 472, 511, 977-978, 980, 1418; Right to Die§ 2.]
"[Liberty] denotes not merely freedom from bodily restraint but also the right of the individual to contract, to engage in any of the common occupations of life, to acquire useful knowledge, to marry, establish a home and bring up children, to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience, and generally to enjoy those privileges long recognized at common law as essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men." Meyer v. Nebraska, 262 U.S. 390, 399, 43 S.Ct. 625, 626 (1923).
"The sphere of my legal liberty is that sphere of activity within which the law is content to leave me alone." John Salmond, Jurisprudence 239 (Glanville L. Williams ed., 10th ed. 1947).Black's Law Dictionary (8th ed. 2004) , Page 2689 2689
This part is right up your ally.... (however note there is no case law supporting just an opinion :)
"The word liberty has become a symbol around which have clung some of the most generous human emotions. We have been brought up to thrill with admiration at the men who say, Give me liberty or give me death. But the philosopher asks whether all those who are devoted to liberty mean the same thing. Does liberty or freedom, for instance, involve free trade? Does it involve freedom to preach race hatred or the overthrow of all that we regard as sacred? Many who believe in liberty characterize the freedom which they are not willing to grant, as license, and they do it so often that one may be inclined to think that what we really need is less liberty and more license.
Moreover, there is a confusion between the absence of legal restraint and the presence of real freedom as positive power to do what we want. The legal freedom to earn a million dollars is not worth a cent to one who has no real opportunity. It is fashionable to assert that men want freedom above all other things, but a strong case may be made out for the direct contrary. Absolute freedom is just what people do not want ...." Morris R. Cohen, Reason and Law 101-02 (1961).
individual liberty.See personal liberty. natural liberty.The power to act as one wishes, without any restraint or control, unless by nature.
"This natural liberty ... [is] a right inherent in us by birth .... But every man, when he enters into society, gives up a part of his natural liberty, as the price of so valuable a purchase; and, in consideration of receiving the advantages of mutual commerce, obliges himself to conform to those laws, which the community has thought proper to establish." 1 William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England 121 (1765).
personal liberty.One's freedom to do as one pleases, limited only by the government's right to regulate the public health, safety, and welfare. - Also termed individual liberty. [Cases: Constitutional Law 83. C.J.S. Constitutional Law §§ 472, 511.]
political liberty.A person's freedom to participate in the operation of government, esp. in elections and in the making and administration of laws. religious
liberty.Freedom - as guaranteed by the First Amendment - to express, without external control other than one's own conscience, any or no system of religious opinion and to engage in or refrain from any form of religious observance or public or private religious worship, as long as it is consistent with the peace and order of society. [Cases: Constitutional Law 84. C.J.S. Constitutional Law §§ 513-517.]
You mean the concept of unalienable rights...entirely different to the existence of unalienable rights.....
Its not a concept but an observation.
I disagree that the unwritten should be devolved into mere concept.
Just because newton wasnt around in 1000bc does not change the fact that an apple will still hit you in the head even before it is written.
So....last time I suppose as time is ticking away.....how can the right to owning property be an unalienable right.....when said property can quite easily be taken away?...how can liberty be an unalienable right when liberty is an abstract notion that can't be defined in terms of consensus and even then I'd wager that were you to give me your definition of liberty I'd be able to give you an example of liberty (as defined by you) as being stamped out?
thou shalt not steal/covet.
if you have 5 people all starving having divided up a candy bar, 4 of whom chomped it right away and the 5th who decided to wait till he was nearly dead to eat it, when he falls asleep do the other 4 have the right to take his property?
If you have no right to a controlling interest in property then anyone can take it for any reason.
Do you own a house? If you do I am sure you would not want someone moving in telling you so what if you paid for it with your sacrifices, blood sweat and tears we want it get out.
Oh now I see what you mean.
you are conflating unalienable right with violation of rights.
Again because someone will steal from you ar gun point does that mean you did not have the unalienable right to the property?
To say reality is that they take it from you anyway only point out the level of atrocities we have been programmed to accept and has nothing to do with the right in and of itself unless you believe that if a right is violated long enough that it should no longer be a right?
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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile
Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?
Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!
"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session
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