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Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 2:40:11 PM   
Whiterabbit0117


Posts: 68
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline 		I coordinate one of the larger lifestyle groups in the area.  We have a monthly social/play party.  This has been going on for about a decade and the group has grown to an average attendance of 100 - 140 per month.  About 10 - 15% play the rest come to socialize.

We have about 5 - 15 new people show up every month.  Some become regular attendees, but most we never see again.  We know that coming through the door the first time is quite traumatic.  Some come and get as far as the parking lot 2 - 4 times before coming in.  Others report sitting in the lot  for over an hour before getting the nerve to come in.  Many of our regulars are quite good at identifying the newcomers (easily identified by the deer in the headlights look) and trying to make them feel welcome. 

Question - Why do most first timers never return?  They stay on our listserv and get the announcements, but we don't see them again.   Is real too scary?  Was their curiosity sated?   Did the subs not fall at their feet?  or ??


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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 2:48:08 PM   
Alacrity


Posts: 40
Joined: 5/14/2005
Status: offline 		If I had to guess it's that the experience did not meet the expectations, in some way, of the first timers. They weren't made to feel welcome, they were ignored, the reality didn't live up to the fantasy, they didn't get laid that night, whatever...

If you really want to know assign someone as a new person liason. Have that person get some contact info from the newcomers and ask them. Personal contact is almost always a plus. Alternatively you could pass out a feedback sheet to the first timers that asks them if they'll come back and their reasons.

Good luck


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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 2:50:07 PM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Question - Why do most first timers never return?  They stay on our listserv and get the announcements, but we don't see them again.   Is real too scary?  Was their curiosity sated?   Did the subs not fall at their feet?  or ??


It could be any number of reasons, but the most plausible, in my opinion, is that real becomes too scary for them. For many, the fantasy is better than the reality. Just my thoughts on the issue.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 2:54:05 PM   
tears4him


Posts: 30
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline 		If they feel like some do on the forums, that they'll be judged for breathing. It's understandable. All it takes is one to snort at them in the parking lot. 

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 2:55:33 PM   
Saraheli


Posts: 178
Joined: 1/2/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe they don't return because they do not like the experience, just because you enjoy it does not mean that others will.
Myself, I have very little real interest in public BDSM-related events, just not my thing. I suspect that since only a part (no idea if it would be the greater part or the leeser) of the BDSM community would want to attend public functions, and that our community is pretty small overall to begin with, 100-140 regulars is pretty good

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 2:58:11 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		You answered your own question. Most new comers I've met say that the hardest thing is to come to ANY BDSM function let alone a play function. Non-play getherings will help to get people to come back more and more. People, in my experience, tend to be timid about entering into this lifestyle and are more willing to come back to a non-play function then a function with play.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 3:30:25 PM   
slave41couple


Posts: 9
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alacrity

If I had to guess it's that the experience did not meet the expectations, in some way, of the first timers. They weren't made to feel welcome, they were ignored, the reality didn't live up to the fantasy, they didn't get laid that night, whatever...

If you really want to know assign someone as a new person liason. Have that person get some contact info from the newcomers and ask them. Personal contact is almost always a plus. Alternatively you could pass out a feedback sheet to the first timers that asks them if they'll come back and their reasons.

Good luck



That might work for some but for me, having only had one Master (who was not into the public scene at all)  in the past, I would prefer for a person to sit at a table so if I wanted to ask a question I could. I would not want a welcome wagon my first visit i would much rather be left to myself or the people i ventured there with until MY comfort level built up. I remember as a kid visiting different churches and the part i always hated was when they acknowledged the newcomers and visitors and made them stand and introduce themselves. It just made me feel put on the spot!

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 3:48:41 PM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		I think joining and attending are two different things.  I go occasionally to NY functions, but I won't join because of privacy issues.  I'm a paranoid conspiracy theorist, but we are living in an Orwellian nightmare.  I have reasons for wishing to protect my privacy and one little NSA letter to one officer would mean that the entire membership would be divulged or else that officer would go to jail.  Even though they've gone to court to protect the privacy of their members, that doesn't mean much with the current POTUS and AG and until we can get a climate where kinky folk aren’t being legally prosecuted then there are compelling reasons to not join.

But, as for going to meetings, I have to say, little, little things can be a great turn-off.  If it is a non-play meeting (the only ones I've gone to), a boring presentation or two people getting in an argument or a statement about what "real" people do can all alienate me.

I left a meeting in the middle at one point because they were moving the chairs in a circle and they were too close together and the only available seat, the guy sitting next to it looked at my chest and then licked his lips.  I was probably the only one that caught it, but I felt really uncomfortable and just left.  I’ve noticed the NY group often puts the chairs just a little too close to each other for my comfort.  Not a big deal, but it could be for others.

Finally, and there's not much you can do about this, but someone who is really not their type hitting on them may very well be a turn-off.  You might talk to your members about not monopolizing new members.  I think light flirtation is great, but I sometimes seem to have some guy that doesn’t interest me who won’t let me graciously go. 

I think having at least 2 people at each meeting in charge of welcoming (with a clear rule that the welcoming committee doesn't hit on anyone aggressively), so new women can be chatted up by other women and new men can be chatted up by other men might be worth trying as well.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 3:50:24 PM   
fldrkhorse


Posts: 158
Joined: 11/5/2005
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Why not just ask them?

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 4:01:19 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slave41couple
That might work for some but for me, having only had one Master (who was not into the public scene at all)  in the past, I would prefer for a person to sit at a table so if I wanted to ask a question I could. I would not want a welcome wagon my first visit i would much rather be left to myself or the people i ventured there with until MY comfort level built up. I remember as a kid visiting different churches and the part i always hated was when they acknowledged the newcomers and visitors and made them stand and introduce themselves. It just made me feel put on the spot!

I'm into the lifestyle, NOT the community of it.  I can relate to slave41couple's Dom and much of what she said (major exception being the church bizzo).
 
I never have and never will play in public because D/s is how I live my personal relationships and express intimacy - it's *private*!  If there were a BDSM function in my area, and there isn't, I'd still go out of curiosity....  I'd prefer to just socialise and such gatherings are also good for meeting a prospective fem/sub.  Trouble is, the few functions I have attended were predominantly attended by male/subs - no use to me! lol
 
Focus.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 4:16:49 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I've rarely attended any public get togethers with the local group, but I do have dinner with some of the regulars, and am active on the group weblist........I tend to keep to myself, and this fits my way of being.
 
Level

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 4:29:13 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I think it depends really on the motivation that brought them to you in the first place -- if its to find a play partner fast, they will be disappointed the majority of the time.

It could also be that your attendance (100-140 is pretty large) is overwhelming. Perhaps your group might consider pre-party events for newbies and a few others to get them eased into things? I know that TES did that from time to time -- hosted small groups who visited clubs and hung out before attending a play party. It seemed to work pretty well.

It could also be that the fantasy of play party is more attractive than the reality. Some of us don't have hard fantasies of what a play party is but some folks do -- when that isn't what happens (again motivations come into factor) its hard to keep going.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 4:45:40 PM   
ChainedExistence


Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		I was one of those people who sat in a parking lot at a munch location on more than one occasion. I was a woman alone and scared to death. When I finally worked up the nerve to go in to one of those and asked for the only person I knew , she turned out to not be there that day. She had been the one to initially meet me for the group and the one who invited me in the first place. Everyone else was a stranger to me, and when I asked and she wasn't there, no one else made any move to say anything  to me. So I stood there for a minute or two feeling my face flushing with embarrassment and I bolted. I figured I might be less nervous going to a subs only meeting.  The same women who had invited me wasn't there again, but I'd sort of gotten to know people by reputation from the group's web site. Unfortunately, the meeting, was in a public restaurant and there were lots of loud discussions about dancing naked around fires and making sacrifices (it was near Halloween, most of the subs were Pagan, and yes, I was aware it was joking ). I'm not Pagan so most of the conversation lost me . Then when the talk turned to Bdsm and D/s topics, I felt like the group was on display. The group members were loud and other people were staring.   I'm a private girl by nature, and that was entirely too much for me.  I think being an " unconnected," mostly inexperienced submissive at the time also worked against me. I'm not sure I would have felt all that comfortable no matter what the setting.  At this point, I think I wouldn't find it nearly as intimidating as I did then, but I really don't have the interest to attend.

< Message edited by ChainedExistence -- 4/7/2006 4:49:34 PM >

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 4:49:38 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I've gone to one munch and found it wasn't the right fit for me.  It was a very small group.  And it was apparent that they'd spent time with each other.  Intimately.  Dom'ing each other; subing to each other, in various different scenarios.  They are a group that do a lot of scening together.  I felt it was a bit incestuous (for lack of a better descriptor).  For my first experience, it was a disappointment.  Everyone welcomed me and were nice to me, but I knew halfway into it that I would not return.  

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 4:51:56 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm just the kind of person you're talking about.  I belong to all kinds of listservs and Yahoo groups, but almost never go to munches.  Well, I go about once a year.

Why don't I go to munches?  Because they're fucking boring, frankly.  You just sit around at some restaurant, talking about 1950's songs or God knows what--or worse, you start gossiping about other people in the life and refer to them coyly by their internet screen names.  The people are real, fair enough, but they tend not to be looking for the same thing I am.  They tend to be the kind of people who think "safe, sane, consensual" is the answer to the world's problems.  (I also tend to get the impression that they've all fucked each other at some point, but maybe I am just projecting my own prejudices.)

So why do I stay on the lists?  Because there are all kinds of announcements, and I find them useful.  So-and-so is having a sale.  So-and-so is in the hospital, please send good wishes.  There is such-and-such convention.  So-and-so is looking for whatever and wants advice.

And I'd like to know when and where the munches are, just in case I'd like to go one day.  But the list owners shouldn't hold their breath.

Lam

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 4/7/2006 4:53:19 PM >

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 4:52:48 PM   
slave41couple


Posts: 9
Joined: 12/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: slave41couple
That might work for some but for me, having only had one Master (who was not into the public scene at all)  in the past, I would prefer for a person to sit at a table so if I wanted to ask a question I could. I would not want a welcome wagon my first visit i would much rather be left to myself or the people i ventured there with until MY comfort level built up. I remember as a kid visiting different churches and the part i always hated was when they acknowledged the newcomers and visitors and made them stand and introduce themselves. It just made me feel put on the spot!

I'm into the lifestyle, NOT the community of it.  I can relate to slave41couple's Dom and much of what she said (major exception being the church bizzo).
 
I never have and never will play in public because D/s is how I live my personal relationships and express intimacy - it's *private*!  If there were a BDSM function in my area, and there isn't, I'd still go out of curiosity....  I'd prefer to just socialise and such gatherings are also good for meeting a prospective fem/sub.  Trouble is, the few functions I have attended were predominantly attended by male/subs - no use to me! lol
 
Focus.
  LOL the church thing was as a kid. Probably why I don't go now.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 5:09:22 PM   
Takethiswaltz


Posts: 199
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Dear Whiterabbit,
As Alacrity suggested, I think a newcomer liason is a wonderful idea.
It's rather daunting to move into real life initially, never mind putting yourself in a situation where you don't know anyone.  It would be nice if a munch group had a contact person (or people)
that someone like me could communicate with via e-mail prior to meeting real time.  It would provide the opportunity to get to know at least one person prior to attending, and the liason would be responsible for making sure the newcomer had a good experience.
I think that would ensure a higher percentage of returnees.

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Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...

~Leonard Cohen~

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 5:14:34 PM   
bignipples2share


Posts: 611
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Saraheli

Myself, I have very little real interest in public BDSM-related events, just not my thing.


This is very well said and exactly how I feel.
I don't mind everyone knowing who I'm bedding, I just do care for everyone knowing what I'm doing while I'm there. I wouldn't do it if I were vanilla. Unless I have some sort of intent to be intimate with someone, I don't really need to know if they're gay either. 
The only person I care to be voyeristic, or exhibitionist with, is a specific partner and I'd prefer to talk to just the one person about what we're both looking for.
Granted, this can't be done well with a prospective partner out in the general masses, no matter how interesting their expressions become as you divulge what your interests are. It doesn't do well either, when they start telling all their friends about the kinky chick that wanted to do THIS and THAT with them. It's just one of the little things I'm trying to avoid.
So, I decided to work backwards and see if there is a match up on paper first. I don't see this as turning into 'the answer', but I'm not ready to discount it either.

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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 5:21:44 PM   
SimplyV


Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiterabbit0117

Question - Why do most first timers never return?  They stay on our listserv and get the announcements, but we don't see them again.   Is real too scary?  Was their curiosity sated?   Did the subs not fall at their feet?  or ??



Others have brought up good points that I agree with.

Definately more frazzeling to go to a play party then just a normal munch.  The larger the numbers the more intimidating it can be. 

Some people just aren't public people with something they consider as private and intimate as their sex-life.  I will probably eventually manage to gain the courage to go to a play party, but it would start as a merely educational event for me.  I don't see me ever joining in, but then I won't rule it out either as one never really knows.

As far as the welcome wagon, it might not be a bad idea for new comers who don't seem to be with anyone who is familiar to the group.  At least someone could be appointed to "meet and greet" them and maybe introduce them to a couple other people.  I know it is very nerve wrecking to go to a munch and have no one come up and say hi.

With the large numbers that you describe, I would be more at ease probably.  But then I am a bit odd and have a bit of an odd social phobia.  Groups of about 12 or so are comfortable, as it is easier to get to know people in that small of a group and there are enough people that you're bound to get along with one of them and its hard for all 12 to ask you questions at once.  Smaller groups of 5-6 can be intimidating.  Larger groups of 30-50 can be intimidating as people usually know each other and there are usually cliques and hard to get to know people on a one by one basis.   Groups of 100+ .. its easier to fade into the background, and ease into the group, or pick out others who are new to the group too and strike up a friendship. 

But thats just me. I did public speaking in HS and College.  I was a bumbling idiot talking to groups of 15, but I was just perfect in front of a crowd of 300.



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RE: Why people don't join groups - 4/7/2006 5:36:05 PM   
sultryvoice


Posts: 368
Joined: 3/31/2004
Status: offline 		I belong to several groups. I am very active in one. I am a DM and a manager. I don't play in public much and I prefer that. I wouldn't have learned as much as I have and met the wonderful people I have without being in a group. I go to socialize, learn and meet others. I have gone to munches in the past. It's not that I won't go, it's that they have gotten to be too far away for me to drive. The munches are always in a private room so others aren't aware of the nature of our business. I have to agree, it's not for everyone. I also know it's very scary and daunting your first time. It was mine. My first Dom was very private but he did get so much from what I learned from others. It's been a good thing for me.

I think having a male and a female to greet newbies is the best thing. Greet them; make introductions; how did they find out about the group; show them around the place; leave them with if ther is any thing they need or have any questions, that you would be glad to assist them. No need to hover. The meet before the the party for newbies is also a good idea.Anything to make them feel welcome and not push at them.

Respectfully,
sultry

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