RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal

RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (Full Version)

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Elisabella -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 5:56:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy You left taking your tax dollars with you...Did that help? Are you really this slow? Or do you think it is somehow cute? Do you really think the reason I moved to Australia was to deprive the US of my tax dollars because I disagree with the laws there? That I was intentionally wielding power against the US?

luckydawg -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 5:56:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg DMyngblk. Actually you are incorrect. Real ID is coming next year, and Before a card can be issued, the applicant must provide the following documentation[16]: A photo ID, or a non-photo ID that includes full legal name and birthdate. Documentation of birth date. Documentation of legal status and Social Security number Documentation showing name and principal residence address. This will be nothing more than showing a drivers liscence at a legal stop. You missed my point so I will restate with your facts. You have said ID. The authorities are still hunting Illegal IRA members so it is necessary to stop whites that fit that profile. Do you suppose white americans would be okey dokey with being stopped and asked to produce ID on the whim of a Police Officer? If that was the case the law would last about 15 seconds. So you are another person who has not read the law.....no one is stopped and asked to produce ID on a whim by the new law. So that angle is nonsense. As to specific wanted IRA terrorists. I would certainly expect any police officer who was legally checking a persons ID, to if he found the person was a wanted terrorist...send the code for help, I have a wanted terrorist detained, and do not have the training or equipment to deal with it. and I did not say "ID" I said "Real ID", which is a specific legal thing. Parsing words. Who gets to decide if it is a legal check. Oh thats right, the police officer. What constitutes a legal stop? Oh yeah, his discretion again cause that person look suspicious. The USSC decides if a stop is legal or not. Hibel.... Brown....all previously referenced on the previous page. A stop for no reason would be a bonazza lawsuit for anyone who it happened to. Thats the reality. What is your motivation for all the paranoid fantasy stuff? Is it political? or what?

Elisabella -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 5:57:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth Since you apparently didn't read what Domi wrote here it is: quote: You don't like what a corporation does you don't buy their product...You don't agree with how a state conducts their business you don't give them your dollars Notice that both he mentions both country and company. Yes I know the difference. I thought the 'company' part was just as irrelevant when he wrote it, which is why I only responded to 'country' with my post. If it was his post you were responding to, you shouldn't have quoted mine instead.

luckydawg -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:01:55 PM)
Ellissabella, are you trying to use logic and reality with the trolls? These folks have to pretend the law is different than what it actually is( and ignore a host of other laws and case precedents), in order to make their point. This goes all the way to the Obama Administration, which has admitted commenting on the law before reading it. Of course they have to resort to insults, lies and ridiculous contortions.....

WyldHrt -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:02:29 PM)
quote: You missed my point so I will restate with your facts. You have said ID. The authorities are still hunting Illegal IRA members so it is necessary to stop whites that fit that profile. Do you suppose white americans would be okey dokey with being stopped and asked to produce ID on the whim of a Police Officer? If that was the case the law would last about 15 seconds. First off, do many people really go about their daily business without proper ID on them? I don't. Secondly, I have been asked for ID by police officers on several occasions, and had no issue with producing it. Hell, I have to show it to a store clerk if I want to use a credit card or if I'm buying alcohol and they ask to see it. I have to show it to get into clubs and other adult only places. Why would it bother me to show it to a police officer if s/he asked? Now, to address the above: It wouldn't happen for the same reason that Az cops won't be stopping every Hispanic they see on the streets. The population of Az is about 30% Hispanic. Figure another 5-10% or so could pass. That's 35%-40% of the state population. Who the hell thinks Arizona has enough cops to be just randomly checking IDs on the street and pulling people over for no other reason than they 'look' Hispanic? Also, I seriously doubt that "He/she looked Hispanic" is gonna fly as 'reasonable suspicion' in a state where every third person either is or looks Hispanic.

DomYngBlk -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:07:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: l Parsing words. Who gets to decide if it is a legal check. Oh thats right, the police officer. What constitutes a legal stop? Oh yeah, his discretion again cause that person look suspicious. The USSC decides if a stop is legal or not. Hibel.... Brown....all previously referenced on the previous page. A stop for no reason would be a bonazza lawsuit for anyone who it happened to. Thats the reality. What is your motivation for all the paranoid fantasy stuff? Is it political? or what? Real life experience and it isn't a fantasy. And you are going to tell me all stops that result in arrest are legal stops. uh huh. You still haven't bothered to answer getting stopped in this way on a regular or semi-regular basis because you are deemed "suspicious" would be a problem for you. I suppose not. Do you have a thing for Cops?

Elisabella -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:09:49 PM)
quote: Also, I seriously doubt that "He/she looked Hispanic" is gonna fly as 'reasonable suspicion' in a state where every third person either is or looks Hispanic. Exactly.

rulemylife -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:10:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg RML, except your link to the Yahoo news story, in no way demonstrates that the law violates Hibel (or brown). this is not a stop and identify law. at all. It specifically states, B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY 21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS 22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS 23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, 24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE 25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT 26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c). I guess that is what the debate is about. Does "lawful contact" mean the law only allows a check of immigration status during the course of an investigation into another crime or has "reasonable suspicion" been expanded so law enforcement can randomly check someone's status? It appears to me the law was written intentionally ambiguously to allow the latter.

luckydawg -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:13:33 PM)
You asked about cops looking for specific individual IRA Terrorists. Actuall people. If a officer thought I was one of them, I would not mind showign I wasn't. I don't see where I said all stops that result in arrest are legal stops. Do I have a thing for Cops? I guess since you need to lie about the law. And change what I wrote. Insults is all you got. God, Trolls are boring.

DomYngBlk -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:13:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt quote: You missed my point so I will restate with your facts. You have said ID. The authorities are still hunting Illegal IRA members so it is necessary to stop whites that fit that profile. Do you suppose white americans would be okey dokey with being stopped and asked to produce ID on the whim of a Police Officer? If that was the case the law would last about 15 seconds. First off, do many people really go about their daily business without proper ID on them? I don't. Secondly, I have been asked for ID by police officers on several occasions, and had no issue with producing it. Hell, I have to show it to a store clerk if I want to use a credit card or if I'm buying alcohol and they ask to see it. I have to show it to get into clubs and other adult only places. Why would it bother me to show it to a police officer if s/he asked? Now, to address the above: It wouldn't happen for the same reason that Az cops won't be stopping every Hispanic they see on the streets. The population of Az is about 30% Hispanic. Figure another 5-10% or so could pass. That's 35%-40% of the state population. Who the hell thinks Arizona has enough cops to be just randomly checking IDs on the street and pulling people over for no other reason than they 'look' Hispanic? Also, I seriously doubt that "He/she looked Hispanic" is gonna fly as 'reasonable suspicion' in a state where every third person either is or looks Hispanic. So you've been out minding your own business walking around and been randomly stopped by a police officer and asked for ID(I will leave alone the idea that your current ID is enough to "prove"you are legal which it isn't)without being upset that you were stopped out of the blue like that? If so, then you are a pretty docile in your approach then. So your logic is that it isn't going to be everyone that gets stopped all the time so that is ok? So what do you suspose is going to be reasonable suspicion? Think maybe being Hispanic in a nice neighborhood in Scottsdale is going to be "suspicious"? Yeah I would guess that it would too.

domiguy -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:17:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy You left taking your tax dollars with you...Did that help? Are you really this slow? Or do you think it is somehow cute? Do you really think the reason I moved to Australia was to deprive the US of my tax dollars because I disagree with the laws there? That I was intentionally wielding power against the US? Of course not. But your thought process lacks depth that you cannot understand that taking away dollars might change policies. Dollars and thelackthereof get politician's attentions. Too bad you are incapable of understanding this.

Elisabella -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:17:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg Ellissabella, are you trying to use logic and reality with the trolls? Yeah, that's the problem. They're not trolls. [:(] Er. ETA - most of them aren't, at least.

Elisabella -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:18:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Of course not. But your thought process lacks depth that you cannot understand that taking away dollars might change policies. Dollars and the lack there of get politician's attentions. Too bad you are incapable of understanding this. It really is a shame. I suppose it would be too much to ask that you get out a tiny violin for me?

DomYngBlk -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:18:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg You asked about cops looking for specific individual IRA Terrorists. Actuall people. If a officer thought I was one of them, I would not mind showign I wasn't. I don't see where I said all stops that result in arrest are legal stops. Do I have a thing for Cops? I guess since you need to lie about the law. And change what I wrote. Insults is all you got. God, Trolls are boring. As with every other question asked of you , you have no answer for. I gave you that one cause it was the last one I could possibly give that might get an actual answer. Have to love message board geniuses that want to act as if they are actually in the know about something when they don't have a clue about the time of day. Carry on with your stupidity.

domiguy -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:18:59 PM)
it shows a genuine lack of insight.

luckydawg -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:20:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg RML, except your link to the Yahoo news story, in no way demonstrates that the law violates Hibel (or brown). this is not a stop and identify law. at all. It specifically states, B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY 21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS 22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS 23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, 24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE 25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT 26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c). I guess that is what the debate is about. Does "lawful contact" mean the law only allows a check of immigration status during the course of an investigation into another crime or has "reasonable suspicion" been expanded so law enforcement can randomly check someone's status? It appears to me the law was written intentionally ambiguously to allow the latter. Except it's not ambigous. It is written in English. The clause, "WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS 23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES" is clearly subordinate, to '" FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY 21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS 22 STATE" Lawfull Contact is defined by the USSC, in the cases you presented to me. This law clearly is not a stop at random and give ID law. And it would be an instant lawsuit if it was used in that way. But with Real ID, anytime a legal ID is produced citizenship/immigration status will be able to be instantly checked. Interestingly, the law also has severe state penalties for employers of illegal immigration. And makes it a crime to solicit the labor of an illegal.

WyldHrt -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:21:20 PM)
quote: So you've been out minding your own business walking around and been randomly stopped by a police officer and asked for ID(I will leave alone the idea that your current ID is enough to "prove"you are legal which it isn't)without being upset that you were stopped out of the blue like that? If so, then you are a pretty docile in your approach then. Yep, I have; and no, it didn't bother me. quote: So your logic is that it isn't going to be everyone that gets stopped all the time so that is ok? My logic is that the police aren't going to be randomly stopping people for no other reason than they 'look' Hispanic. quote: So what do you suspose is going to be reasonable suspicion? Think maybe being Hispanic in a nice neighborhood in Scottsdale is going to be "suspicious"? Yeah I would guess that it would too. That will be news to all the Hispanics that live in nice areas of Scottsdale.

DomYngBlk -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:23:19 PM)
Keep that job at wal-mart.

luckydawg -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:23:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg You asked about cops looking for specific individual IRA Terrorists. Actuall people. If a officer thought I was one of them, I would not mind showign I wasn't. I don't see where I said all stops that result in arrest are legal stops. Do I have a thing for Cops? I guess since you need to lie about the law. And change what I wrote. Insults is all you got. God, Trolls are boring. As with every other question asked of you , you have no answer for. I gave you that one cause it was the last one I could possibly give that might get an actual answer. Have to love message board geniuses that want to act as if they are actually in the know about something when they don't have a clue about the time of day. Carry on with your stupidity. Like I said, trolls are boring as all get out.

domiguy -> RE: AZ, All Stars, & Looking Illegal (5/16/2010 6:24:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg DMyngblk. Actually you are incorrect. Real ID is coming next year, and Before a card can be issued, the applicant must provide the following documentation[16]: A photo ID, or a non-photo ID that includes full legal name and birthdate. Documentation of birth date. Documentation of legal status and Social Security number Documentation showing name and principal residence address. This will be nothing more than showing a drivers liscence at a legal stop. I still think this is one of the funniest and most ridiculous things that I have ever read.....Shows a complete lack of common sense and understanding the political landscape. Luckydawg is a moron. What a complete jack ass. I will be bringing out this gem over the next year every time this "troll" posts. Every thought will be compared to see if it is as inane as this one. What an absurd notion. what a dope. Lucky makes me happy that he is so dumb.

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