RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 6:29:17 AM)

Is there any way it could be done pre-birth?

Maybe laproscopically?




Jeffff -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 6:32:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


So, in that case knives aren't bad? That seems to go contrary to heartcream's assertion that cutting is bad during a birth.

(Surely you weren't thinking I was literally suggesting not to cut the cord? Use your head.)




Silly post




Raiikun -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 6:34:30 AM)

I find that's often the best way to respond to a silly post, with a silly post.




domiguy -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 6:35:06 AM)

You are being a dick. A circumcised dick at that.





Raiikun -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 6:37:21 AM)

Yeah, a bit of snarky humor at someone suggesting cutting is bad during a moment that cutting is required, and it going over your head...what a dickish move. [:D]




pahunkboy -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 6:39:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

You are being a dick. A circumcised dick at that.




What is lost due to circumcision?




Rule -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 6:39:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
The American Cancer Society article I cited was about a study done with monogomous, fluid-bonded couples.  Perhaps roughly 50% of those uncircumcised men were just slovenly.  The study didn't say.  I never said people should forego safe-sex just because the male is circumcised or that hygiene isn't as necessary for everyone, male, female, circumcised or not.  I did not even imply that.  I cited an article regarding a study of women with cervical cancer and the findings of that study.

My concern regarding HPV is that it seems people who are against circumcision are also against vaccinations and those two factors could increase the risk of cervical cancer in women.  Yes, there is now a vaccine.  The vaccine was only made available 2 years ago. 

I'm in favor of informed choice.  I don't see that circumcision is harmful.  Trust me, if a hooded clit was discovered to be a source of disease, possible clitoria cancer or penile cancer I would think it reasonable to have the hood removed and would see no real damage other than a lot of guys would think it "icky".

Excessive hygiene causes disease for it removes the good bacteria from the skin, giving bad bacteria and fungus an opportunity to conquer the vacated territory. This is the Law of Murphy in action: Anything that is done with good intentions infallibly turns out to result into precisely the opposite.

One cannot remove viruses by being hygienic. A herpes or papilloma virus on a penis is there to stay, no matter how much soap one applies. (Though a papilloma virus may eventually be killed by the immune system.)

It is no use to apply soap to HIV and hepatitis virus: if the skin is intact, they cannot get into the body. If they do get into the body, soap is of no use.

Your sin is that you refuse to accept disease and death and the consequences of licentious behavior. Your sin is that you refuse to take responsibility.

There is only one way to reduce sexually transmitted diseases to a low but useful level: the Christian way. Men must be faithful to their wife. And women that have sinned have been told by Jesus to go home and sin no more.

Sexually transmitted diseases are beneficial for several reasons and one of those reasons is that they remove people that are driven by lust from the gene pool.

Considering how rampant sexually transmitted diseases are nowadays, it will presumably take at least two generations to reduce them to normal Christian levels.




pahunkboy -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 6:43:16 AM)

Rule,

I am not sure I am looking forward to that.

When a society goes thu that type of puritanism-  gays, and others get clobbered.  




Rule -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 6:58:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Rule,

I am not sure I am looking forward to that.

When a society goes thu that type of puritanism-  gays, and others get clobbered.  

There are love-driven gays and there are lust driven pseudo-gays. The latter have far more to fear from sexually transmitted diseases than the former.

That said, in evolution biology the existence of homosexual people has been a mind boggling mystery. I have spent many years towards solving that mystery, pondering and pondering possibilities. There are various evolutionary advantages to having homosexuals in one's population. Eventually I solved this problem: the primary advantage for having homosexuals in a population is that they are vectors for sexually transmitted diseases. It sucks for the homosexual men - but by being such vectors they benefit their population.

So I say: value and respect your homosexuals.
Whereas Abrahamic Jews (There are other genuine Jews) because of being on the wrong evolutionary track and greatly fearing the sexually transmitted diseases that threaten them,
are apt to murder their homosexuals.

I also suspect another manifestation of Murphy's Law here: it is my - unproven - impression that there are dis-proportionally large numbers of lust-driven pseudo-homosexuals in populations that circumcise. A consequence of the evolution algorithm trying to oppose the abnormal practice of circumcision, I suspect.




kiwisub12 -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 10:21:26 AM)

What the heck is a pseudo-homosexual? If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and fucks like a duck, then it is a duck. No pseudo- about it.

and how would the pseudo-homosexuals' parents know that they were pseudo-homosexuals at such a tender young age? Do they come out with a sign saying circumcise me i am a pseudo=homosexual?

This is goofier than your usual stuff, Rule.

And do you have references for the Jews murdering their homosexuals thing?




heartcream -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 10:27:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Use your head or lose it. Knife+Brand New Infant= Not good.


If cutting during births is bad, I guess that rules out cutting the umbilical cords too.


Gawd Lord some of you are maddening. The crap you believe makes my skin crawl. The umbilical cord is not the foreskin. It is not something you can choose to leave on or not. It is not a function of the body anymore once the child is out and breathing on its own. Rrrrrr, get it together people.

Got Steel usually squicks me with his pov's but here I am glad to see he is functioning well as far as his opinion on circumcision. It is always nice to see some light where there appears to be none.

How soon do I cut the umbilical cord?

There is no rush to cut an umbilical cord in nature. It is vital that the cord be left intact until the child is breathing well on hir own. Oxygen supplied by the placenta makes the transition from the watery womb to dry land much easier on tiny lungs. The "clamping upon emergence" protocol followed in many modern hospitals is nothing less than an assault on the newborn child.

In a normal birth, the child emerges and utilizes the oxygen flowing through the umbilical cord for the transition period after birth. A nursling at the breast is one of Nature's cues to shut down the placenta and empty the womb but this isn't always possible when the cord is short.

Ideally, the placenta will be out and in a bowl beside the beside the baby before the cord is cut. There is typically no hurry to cut the cord and, in fact, many of the standard problems (bleeding, infection, etc.) decrease with each passing hour. If you wait long enough, you might not require a clamp at all as the site "clamps" itself from the inside. Some women report that letting the cord wait for several hours and cutting without clamping results in a cord stump that curls itself into a round button shape. There are baby books out there with the baby's "belly button" proudly displayed in them. :)

Some families choose not to cut the cord at all and allow the placenta and child to separate themselves (Lotus birthing). They may view cord cutting as a form of violence against the child and its "little mother" (placenta) as such practices usually require a great deal of spiritual discipline. Needless to say, this idea appeals to few families today but it is an option.

If the cord needs to be cut before the placenta is delivered it must be tied off to prevent the baby from bleeding out of the wound. Umbilical tape, dental tape (not floss) or even braided embroidery flosses have made excellent "cord clamps" for many babies.

There is blood pulsing through the umbilical cord until it expires. Cutting the cord while it still pulses is common in a hospital setting but it is a last-resort, one-in-a-million intervention in most home births. Preserving that lifeline is an important part of birthing normally.

If the cord is cut before it expires, plastic cord clamps or hemostats are required to quickly and effectively clamp off the blood flow to and from the baby's placenta. Embroidery floss won't hack it in an emergency. If you're the type who wants to prepare for every last possible birth problem you could invest in a pair of plastic cord clamps. The chances that you'll need them are pretty darn slim though. The most common reason cords are clamped early in homebirths is "umbilical cord wrapped around neck and impeding birth". The umbilical cord is commonly wrapped around the neck during birth (it's a "good place" for it) but it rarely impedes the birth. Only one in a million mothers will need those cord clamps.

Metal-handled scissors can be boiled to sterilize or swabbed liberally with alcohol just before cutting the cord. The idea of clamping in two places and cutting between the clamps is prudent when the placenta hasn't delivered but isn't required once it too is Earthside. Some parents choose to do it anyway to prevent leakage from the placenta side.

If you choose to clamp (or tie) do it about an inch or so from the baby's belly and cut close to it so the stump isn't so long it catches on things.

There are several things you can put on your baby's umbilical stump but all it really requires is air and sunshine. Most mothers are warned to keep the stump dry in the US but mothers around the world bathe with their infants and don't give it another thought. If the stump looks red or weepy, the best "remedy" is breastmilk. Breastmilk is a natural, safe, free product with well documented anti-bacterial properties. (You can use it for those yucky newborn eye discharges too. :)





Rule -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 10:36:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
And do you have references for the Jews murdering their homosexuals thing?

Here.




Rule -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 10:39:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
This is goofier than your usual stuff, Rule.

Thank you. I appreciate the compliment.

I also distinguish between red squirrels and grey squirrels. [8D]




pahunkboy -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 10:43:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
And do you have references for the Jews murdering their homosexuals thing?

Here.



Wow.  Well there is a ?unic in India.  Almost as bizarre.




Rule -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 10:45:45 AM)

Very interesting, heartcream. Thank you.




Rule -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 10:46:59 AM)

What is a ?unic?




pahunkboy -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 10:48:17 AM)

A genderless person.   All painted up= they go around and do shows in India and try to get money out of people in each village.




pahunkboy -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 10:49:30 AM)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Ysq&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=india+eunich&aq=f&aqi=g-sx1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Eunuch From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[image]http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png[/image] European illustration of a eunuch (1749) A eunuch (pronounced /ˈjuːnək/) (greek: "Ευνούχος") is a castrated man; usually one castrated early enough to have major hormonal consequences.




Raiikun -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 11:14:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Gawd Lord some of you are maddening. The crap you believe makes my skin crawl. The umbilical cord is not the foreskin. It is not something you can choose to leave on or not.


Now feel free to point out where I implied I believe the umbilical cord is the foreskin or is something you can choose to leave on or not...or stop with the strawmen or assuming what one believes. ;)




tazzygirl -> RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? (6/1/2010 11:21:59 AM)


Plagiarize much?

http://www.empoweredchildbirth.com/articles/birth/cord.html

Next time, cite the source for the words of others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Use your head or lose it. Knife+Brand New Infant= Not good.


If cutting during births is bad, I guess that rules out cutting the umbilical cords too.


Gawd Lord some of you are maddening. The crap you believe makes my skin crawl. The umbilical cord is not the foreskin. It is not something you can choose to leave on or not. It is not a function of the body anymore once the child is out and breathing on its own. Rrrrrr, get it together people.

Got Steel usually squicks me with his pov's but here I am glad to see he is functioning well as far as his opinion on circumcision. It is always nice to see some light where there appears to be none.

How soon do I cut the umbilical cord?

There is no rush to cut an umbilical cord in nature. It is vital that the cord be left intact until the child is breathing well on hir own. Oxygen supplied by the placenta makes the transition from the watery womb to dry land much easier on tiny lungs. The "clamping upon emergence" protocol followed in many modern hospitals is nothing less than an assault on the newborn child.

In a normal birth, the child emerges and utilizes the oxygen flowing through the umbilical cord for the transition period after birth. A nursling at the breast is one of Nature's cues to shut down the placenta and empty the womb but this isn't always possible when the cord is short.

Ideally, the placenta will be out and in a bowl beside the beside the baby before the cord is cut. There is typically no hurry to cut the cord and, in fact, many of the standard problems (bleeding, infection, etc.) decrease with each passing hour. If you wait long enough, you might not require a clamp at all as the site "clamps" itself from the inside. Some women report that letting the cord wait for several hours and cutting without clamping results in a cord stump that curls itself into a round button shape. There are baby books out there with the baby's "belly button" proudly displayed in them. :)

Some families choose not to cut the cord at all and allow the placenta and child to separate themselves (Lotus birthing). They may view cord cutting as a form of violence against the child and its "little mother" (placenta) as such practices usually require a great deal of spiritual discipline. Needless to say, this idea appeals to few families today but it is an option.

If the cord needs to be cut before the placenta is delivered it must be tied off to prevent the baby from bleeding out of the wound. Umbilical tape, dental tape (not floss) or even braided embroidery flosses have made excellent "cord clamps" for many babies.

There is blood pulsing through the umbilical cord until it expires. Cutting the cord while it still pulses is common in a hospital setting but it is a last-resort, one-in-a-million intervention in most home births. Preserving that lifeline is an important part of birthing normally.

If the cord is cut before it expires, plastic cord clamps or hemostats are required to quickly and effectively clamp off the blood flow to and from the baby's placenta. Embroidery floss won't hack it in an emergency. If you're the type who wants to prepare for every last possible birth problem you could invest in a pair of plastic cord clamps. The chances that you'll need them are pretty darn slim though. The most common reason cords are clamped early in homebirths is "umbilical cord wrapped around neck and impeding birth". The umbilical cord is commonly wrapped around the neck during birth (it's a "good place" for it) but it rarely impedes the birth. Only one in a million mothers will need those cord clamps.

Metal-handled scissors can be boiled to sterilize or swabbed liberally with alcohol just before cutting the cord. The idea of clamping in two places and cutting between the clamps is prudent when the placenta hasn't delivered but isn't required once it too is Earthside. Some parents choose to do it anyway to prevent leakage from the placenta side.

If you choose to clamp (or tie) do it about an inch or so from the baby's belly and cut close to it so the stump isn't so long it catches on things.

There are several things you can put on your baby's umbilical stump but all it really requires is air and sunshine. Most mothers are warned to keep the stump dry in the US but mothers around the world bathe with their infants and don't give it another thought. If the stump looks red or weepy, the best "remedy" is breastmilk. Breastmilk is a natural, safe, free product with well documented anti-bacterial properties. (You can use it for those yucky newborn eye discharges too. :)







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