RE: The essence of tolerance

RE: The essence of tolerance (Full Version)

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cpK69 -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/23/2010 8:38:10 PM)
~fr~ I accept the fact that it is not my responsibility/place to make choices for others. Also, I try to remember, because it is not my place to do so, it is also not my place to judge others for the choices they make, either. It is enough to assess a situation, and, or individual and decide the best way for me to respond. Kim

SocratesNot -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/23/2010 9:15:48 PM)
quote: It isn't rude per se to state your objections. However it will prevent people from answering your questions. By stating your objections, you are telling us that you really don't want to learn, that you have already made up your mind negatively. And once you do that, the rest of us are not going to bother to try to get you to change it. By asking questions, by considering the various answers you have received at length, and only then, meaning after some days of considering and asking more questions to help you understand more fully, is it appropriate to thank people and say that you still don't believe you could participate in this activity. You are allowed to decide for yourself, you aren't allowed to decide for anyone else. But unless you can suspend your objections and have an open mind willing to learn then please don't waste our time. You could do many more productive things, like washing the dishes for your mother. Again, you put it quite well. I'll try to follow your advice. Maybe I will not always succeed if my objections are too strong, but at least, I will try.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/23/2010 9:36:52 PM)
I'm replying to an earlier post but I have read the whole thread. quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot "OK, I don't get it, I find it disgusting, but hey, they are probably not idiots as long as they are pursuing it, I will tell them my objections towards such relationship and they will try to defend it. From their responses I will learn about subtle inner workings of the relationship, and then I will be able to appreciate it, not just tolerate it." This is my favorite approach. I had assumed you were extremely socially clumsy, but having read this I now realise you were being this unpleasant deliberately in order to rile people into defending themselves. I'm going to have to agree with Jeffff. The only difference is that, being English, I can spell arsehole properly.

DesFIP -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 4:51:57 AM)
He's very young but even my teen has learned you catch more flies with honey then with vinegar. Doesn't always remember to use the honey but knows it's his fault for using the vinegar.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 6:07:56 AM)
Celeste, I'm not very sympathetic to SN's age as an excuse, given that he is older than I am... Looks like you may have talked some sense into him, though [:)]

Jeffff -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 6:13:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus As long as the activity involves consenting adults, doesn't involve me, doesn't violate any major laws and doesn't adversely impact non-consenting participants in the periphery then I don't give it another thought. I don't attempt to apply my logical, ethical or moral compasses to the activities of others. Provide a more detailed question and I will provide a more detailed response. Dom?.. pretty much everything we do is "illegal".

DarkSteven -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 6:19:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Celeste, I'm not very sympathetic to SN's age as an excuse, given that he is older than I am... You poor, poor dear. I have some extra years. How many may I donate to you?

sirsholly -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 6:23:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Celeste, I'm not very sympathetic to SN's age as an excuse, given that he is older than I am... You poor, poor dear. I have some extra years. How many may I donate to you? if you give her half she will be eligible for an AARP discount[:)]

thishereboi -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 6:26:55 AM)
quote: However, there are great many masters and slaves who claim that in TPE a slave actually does not have a choice. S(he) must obey. S(he) is actually unable to disobey. S(he) is also unable to leave the relationship because his / her will and control is completely transfered to the Master or Mistress. Yea and there are a lot of idiots on here who claim they want to be caged 24/7 for the rest of their lives or they want a stable of slaves to see to their every whim. It comes from reading to much porn and not actually getting off the computer and going out into the real world. Welcome to the internet[8\|]

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 6:38:23 AM)
quote: if you give her half she will be eligible for an AARP discount No she won't, she'll just be older. VC is in the UK and therefore not eligible.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 6:40:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Celeste, I'm not very sympathetic to SN's age as an excuse, given that he is older than I am... You poor, poor dear. I have some extra years. How many may I donate to you? You want to donate years of your life to me? How sweet! You can start by doing the laundry :P

sirsholly -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 6:40:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: if you give her half she will be eligible for an AARP discount No she won't, she'll just be older. VC is in the UK and therefore not eligible. phooey

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 7:13:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth quote: if you give her half she will be eligible for an AARP discount No she won't, she'll just be older. VC is in the UK and therefore not eligible. phooey 'Sokay Holly, as usual your heart was in the right place [:)]

kiwisub12 -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 7:57:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Celeste, I'm not very sympathetic to SN's age as an excuse, given that he is older than I am... You poor, poor dear. I have some extra years. How many may I donate to you? You want to donate years of your life to me? How sweet! You can start by doing the laundry :P oh you are SMART! [:D]

Silence8 -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 8:01:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 La, read the guy's posts.....we're all mentally ill and need saving and his research from reading profiles and no experience whatsoever has convinced him that he can be our therapists......really....not making this shit up.....oh and by the way while he's doing this "therapy" he's going to get a little sex on the side.....yeah...just sayin..... laurell, do I look like the kind of person who gets the least bit concerned about what someone, especially someone on a message board, thinks of me? ;-) - LA The only reason people are reacting the way they are is that Socrates has hit a nerve... in other words, a lot of what he says is true in an inconvenient way... that is, for kings of ideological convenience.

Silence8 -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 8:08:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious I'm replying to an earlier post but I have read the whole thread. quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot "OK, I don't get it, I find it disgusting, but hey, they are probably not idiots as long as they are pursuing it, I will tell them my objections towards such relationship and they will try to defend it. From their responses I will learn about subtle inner workings of the relationship, and then I will be able to appreciate it, not just tolerate it." This is my favorite approach. I had assumed you were extremely socially clumsy, but having read this I now realise you were being this unpleasant deliberately in order to rile people into defending themselves. I'm going to have to agree with Jeffff. The only difference is that, being English, I can spell arsehole properly. Yeah, suggesting that transactional relationships are indecent is, indeed, socially clumsy. People on this website get riled up for any affirmative statement. I suggested on one thread that getting to sleep early and eating more vegetables is generally quite healthy -- I got responses as if I was impeding upon some sacred right of privacy and self-determination. Thinking has become the ultimate taboo. That's why no one ever objects to the one-line one-dimensional posters, the very same posters most likely to call others 'trolls'.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 8:32:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Silence8 Yeah, suggesting that transactional relationships are indecent is, indeed, socially clumsy. No, this is socially clumsy: quote: Also, I think there must be some internal cause of their submissiveness. Low self esteem seems like a very logical explanation. He is basing this, by the way, not on subs he has spoken with but on profile text he has read. This from a guy who complains other people take him too literally. quote: I am quite sure that you think deep down that it is wrong to hit a person, no matter what are the circumstances or their wants and needs. At the same time you have no problem whatsoever being hit. Which means that you think the following: Some people should always be respected and revered and never treated wrongly, not even if this is their desire (for example your Master), and some other people can (and maybe even deserve to) be treated wrongly (for example, you). Which then means that some people are simply more worthy, more valuable and have more human dignity than some other people, and you do not belong to this group. Which, after such analyses shows that I was not so terribly wrong when I assumed that subs "quite often" have the issues with self-esteem. Completely uninvited (and inaccurate, and patronising) armchair psychology, anyone? quote: Leadership 527, do you really think it is OK to have a doormat so that you can experiment with how much of the extremes of whatever (pain, domination, control) are you able to inflict on her in a responsible manner? If she happens to accept anything from you, do you think that it is OK to use this situation to do the things to her that are so extreme that even you are scared to death? I see a lot of potentially dangerous tendencies in your relationship that you describe as perfectly harmonious. Tact? Ever heard of it? (Particularly given how little he knows about Jeff or Carol) quote: There are also numerous books and movies in which this situation [providing 'therapy' to a sexual partner] is finely described. Hear that? The books and movies are telling any reasonable therapist's code of conduct to go fuck itself. Therefore said code of conduct must be wrong... quote: I think that in such situation she [Carol-a woman he has never spoken with and whose relationship he knows very little about] ceases to exist as a subject, she becomes an object easy to manipulate and bend in any direction. Again-this 'situation', this woman he knows very little about-instead of asking for clarification he accuses and insults. That is socially clumsy. You want me to go through this thread too and find the places where he calls Carol retarded and/or mentally ill?

LadyPact -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 10:04:59 AM)
I'm not even sure I'd want to say, LadyH. [sm=banghead.gif] You know, in this past week, this place has been nothing like it was a month ago. There were some damn good discussions going then.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: The essence of tolerance (5/24/2010 10:09:51 AM)
I'm hoping it all settles out again.

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