RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a period as punishment?

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 5/24/2010 10:56:56 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
This is actually a more interesting point.
Even though it has been quite some time ago that I last punished clip, I still consider this a dynamic that includes punishment. The fact that I have punished him specifically makes it so. Even if I wouldn't have already done so, the premise that I would potentially involve punishment should I find it necessary or warranted being absolutely one of the methods I might use in this dynamic makes it one.

What an interesting viewpoint. By that viewpoint, we have a punishment dynamic also. I have, in fact, punished Carol (once). I certainly do not preclude the possibility of it happening again since, like everything else, "punishment" is included in the word "total". I just see it as extremely unlikely... to the point of "asteroid strikes the earth" stuff... and so I say we don't have a punishment dynamic.

Sheez, for once, someone else has out-literal'd me. I'm marking this day in my calendar *laughs*

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 5/24/2010 11:04:49 AM

daddysprop247

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

willful disobedience is something else altogether, and an offense i have committed only once in 10 years.

Coupled with this statement. Willful disobedience is, in fact, a whole different kettle of fish and I have no interest in playing that game... at all. Conveniently, neither does Carol so that all works out well too. Honestly, if Carol didn't actually and deeply desire following my lead, then I wouldn't think of her as a slave and our marriage wouldn't be structured this way to start with. I'd structure it in some other way that was more suited to our personalities. In fact, it is beyond rare that Carol even forgets any command that I have placed any stress on. As I noted, a lot of commands are trivial in my mind and she knows that. The ones which are not I try to communicate clearly on and they don't got misplaced, or forgotten. I cannot really imagine her remembering a command yet choosing to blow it off. That's just not how her head works.

that isn't how any submissive-natured person's mind works (imo). that is only way of many that a person can be willfully disobedient. the commanded task could be especially terrifying (i.e. the oft-mentioned example of limb removal). the task may be mentally and emotionally inconceivable ("spank me, slave!"). it could be life-shattering ("you are never to see your children again").

in my own case, it was a relatively simple task on the surface, a simple command to make a statement X number of times. the statement was an untruth (it began with "i love"), and furthermore a label i wished to run from, but my Master did not know these things. still, in an attempt to obey i made the statement, but well short of the commanded number of times. i simply said, "i cannot." and at that point received the beating of life!! afterward, with his anger quenched and my body just a weak limp puddle, he demanded an explanation. He explored why that label was so painful for me, and made me understand how it was only a thing of beauty to him. it was an enlightening moment in our relationship, for us both...but the punishment was still merited as the fact remained that i made a decision not to obey.

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 5/24/2010 11:29:33 AM

leadership527

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Well then, clearly you're not a TRUE slave *laughs and laughs*

More seriously, if you want my guesses, the reasons it wouldn't happen that way in Carol's head have more to do with her being 52 and us having 12 years under our belts as a couple before we really started all this (knowingly). There's a lot to be said for time and experience. Do you actually think that same story would play out the same way now that you two have been together 10+ years and/or you had enough 25 years of life experience under your belt?

All that being said, there is an entire massive majority of submissives who don't think that way. I get that and there's nothing wrong with that. I just see more similarities between you and Carol than I do differences. Doormats of the world unite! (I need to get T-shirts printed up for that *chuckles*).

Beth said it best when she said the only commonality between all self-identified submissives is that they all self-identify as submissive.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 5/24/2010 12:16:36 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
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From: DC Metro area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Well then, clearly you're not a TRUE slave *laughs and laughs*

More seriously, if you want my guesses, the reasons it wouldn't happen that way in Carol's head have more to do with her being 52 and us having 12 years under our belts as a couple before we really started all this (knowingly). There's a lot to be said for time and experience. Do you actually think that same story would play out the same way now that you two have been together 10+ years and/or you had enough 25 years of life experience under your belt?

well if he were to assign such a task to me today, i would simply do it, then after i had completed the task tell him that i was not making a true statement. in the early days i had yet to master the skill of sucking in the emotions and going on auto-pilot, at least with him (for some reason this skill comes naturally to me with anyone else).

but i just wanted to use that as example of willful disobedience which did not involve a slave "blowing off" a command of the Master. i have never and could never "blow off" any command, desire or whim of my Master, that is just not my nature and i cannot relate to folks who can. perhaps the word "willful" connotes "attitude" for some, but the word can also apply to someone who at that moment, for whatever reason, just does not have the strength to obey.

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
All that being said, there is an entire massive majority of submissives who don't think that way. I get that and there's nothing wrong with that. I just see more similarities between you and Carol than I do differences. Doormats of the world unite! (I need to get T-shirts printed up for that *chuckles*).

Beth said it best when she said the only commonality between all self-identified submissives is that they all self-identify as submissive.

haha...when you get those tees printed up please sell a few to Daddy. :) but the vast differences between various types of submissives is why i try to be careful to use phrasing like "submissive-natured," as opposed to "submissive," in reference to those like myself whose submissiveness is a core personality trait, a default setting.

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 5/24/2010 4:54:11 PM

ResidentSadist

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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Damn - must have been a rough night at Resident Sadists' house last night.

I been thinking about a new BDSM product. A bandana style blindfold with the SSC logo and the inside is lined with rusty tacks.

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I give good thread.

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 5/24/2010 8:40:50 PM

Ekoms

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Yes, fly in the writer's skull...

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 5/25/2010 12:23:10 AM

reynardfox

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I have lately fed a girl from a bowl on floor as part of puppy play and used Thorntons chocolate diplomats as training treats, but I could never deny anybody food, that's not right.

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 5/25/2010 12:55:27 AM

MadameMarque

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(Fast Reply)

I wouldn't care for using food deprivation as actual punishment, no.

Now, for torture, or as punishment in the context of a fantasy (a prisoner or a caged scene, for example), well, I've thought about it. You see, most of the boys I go for are very slender. So it would be so sick and wrong, to starve them or restrict them, too little, just my scraps, making them beg for it, make them into a table, while I eat alone, etc - that it appeals.

Does that make me a bad person?

(Boring details: All the if's apply:
if there's not a health issue that would prohibit it
if there's no eating disorder history
if the duration were considered safe)

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 5/25/2010 4:29:49 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

DesFIP,

quote:

In the time since then we've learned that every damned instance where he could have punished was actually caused by miscommunication.

Miscommunication is often a factor or she had something more compelling than his directive that she chose to follow.

quote:

Should you punish someone when you were unclear?

A leader wouldn't. Napoleon types are apt to do so.

~porcelaine

About the something more compelling, this is why I have tiered rules. So if things conflict I know which to ignore and which to follow. Because with real life being what it is, things will conflict.

I frequently have mentioned the time back when we were ldr that I got a morning email with a detailed list of clothing to wear, on a day when I was scheduled to chaperone a classroom hiking trip. Needless to say, short skirt, stilettoes etc are not hiking clothes.

It wasn't willful disobedience that had me dressing in jeans and tee shirt and pulling my socks over my jeans to keep out ticks. There was no punishment which I knew when I read the email. Just sent a quick reply that he had my schedule mixed up and did he want this for the next day.

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Cynical and proud of it!

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 5/25/2010 7:09:21 AM

porcelaine

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DesFIP,

quote:

About the something more compelling, this is why I have tiered rules. So if things conflict I know which to ignore and which to follow. Because with real life being what it is, things will conflict.

The compelling "thing" is whatever she puts before him in that situation. It can be an event, person, emotion, etc. It is always a choice. Some like to give a dandy excuse that might justify what was done. But nonetheless she chose.

quote:

Just sent a quick reply that he had my schedule mixed up and did he want this for the next day.

I would have done the same in that situation.

~porcelaine

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His will; my fate.

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 7/10/2010 11:17:35 AM

txurinal

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This slave has been punished by not being fed. Usually only missing 1 meal or at the most two. When it was fed, it was always what MASTER wanted to feed it and it had no choice but to eat what it was given

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 7/10/2010 11:04:33 PM

DemonKia

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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FR

First, I made a quick detour over to F e t & plugged in 'starvation' into the fetish-list-searchy-thingy. & sure enough, up popped 'starvation' itself with 28 fans, as well as: * forced starvation 5 kinksters * self starvation 3 kinksters * starvation as a feminist speech act 1 kinkster. There's 5 fans of 'starving'. 'Hunger' yielded up one who subscribed to that fetish & also: * living in a constant state of hunger 1 kinkster. 'Food restriction' has 12 fans. 'Forced diet' has 47 fans. 'Anorexia' has 34 fans. 'Withholding donuts' has 3 fans. There's a group called 'Pro-ana, Pro-CRON, Alternative Eating' with 102 members.

So. I know, not an authoritative research tool, but it does say something about interests. &, much as I dislike it, F e t is _the_ place where all the real-world kinksters I know congregate. & it is the one working so hard to be so interactive & responsive to the kink community, as much as I despise typing those words. Anyways . . . . . .

My primary assumption when reading on these or other kink community message boards is that we're talking informed consenting behaviors of desiring adults, unless otherwise stated. Play-acting 'force' & so on & so forth (mostly). So, from that perspective . . ....

Also, note carefully that prior to about 4 years ago I was a 'fasting scoffer', skeptical of the very notion of going without solid food being a beneficial thing. Something that just whackjobs were into, that kinda thing. I am, of course, a whackjob, but just not one of those kind of whackjobs, ya know? Then, ya know, I tried it for myself.

I engage in occasional 24-ish hour fasts, for health & healing reasons (mostly cuz it makes me feel better to do it). I have also used occasional short-term fasting to, in essence, shrink my stomach pouch (without bariatric surgery) & to 'deal' with my over-eating & sugar-binging issues. This has transpired over the last few years.

When fasting I refrain from eating solid food, mostly. Occasionally I'll eat small amounts of fresh fruit while fasting, but mostly I just drink a lot of water & fresh ginger tea & a little bit of dilute citrus juice of some kind. On days that I fast I also tend to spend a lot of time meditating, resting, &/or sleeping.

I find fasting has been powerfully useful in confronting & working thru my many emotional outpourings triggered by hunger, for example. For me, hunger triggers panic, anxiety, & a host of other unpleasant emotions, &/or compounds existing emotional states. & since one of my 'healthy eating goals' is to 'eat only when actually physically hungry' (rather than the myriad other reasons I eat for), being able to co-exist with hunger was a situation with which I had to get comfortable.

Okay, that's strictly just about me & some of my experience & thinking behind 'temporary bouts of starvation'.

~puts D/M/O hat on~

Okay, now from the perspective of what I do with those who've put themselves into some kind of submissive position to my authority. I tend to want & need everyone around me to be working on compatible being-healthy kinds of trends. I eat a lot of veggies & fruit, whole grains, try to minimize animal products, all that kinda thing, & anyone who's gonna eat meals with me or otherwise spend a lot of close time with me is gonna come into that sphere of influence.

I probably have bigger pet peeves around what beverages people routinely consume way more than food. I drink mostly water & I tend to have little patience with the idea of needing all of ones fluids to be flavored. I deliberately raised the offspring to be by-default-water-drinkers rather than the soda-kool-aid-sweet-tea-whatever-anything-but-H2O swilling example of the masses. Mostly cuz I consider overpriced flavored fluids to be one of the great marketing scams of capitalist-Murrica, but that's a whole other issue . . . .

What I would 'make' a desiring submissive do depends entirely on what that s-type wants, frankly. But then we're back to that thing where I'm into consenting & desired behaviors.

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The Verbossinator

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RE: Would you starve a slave or deny them food for a pe... - 7/10/2010 11:52:10 PM

MistressRoux

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Anything that doesn't jeopardize safety is fine as long as the sub consents to it. These "extremes" are why safewords exist. Certainly, you must give them fluids and can't starve them for a period of time that would result in injury or death. Can't go around starving diabetics or people with similar conditions as that may cause them to, um, die. It's not something I have ever considered doing, but with the aforementioned safety precautions, I would dabble.

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