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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 5/30/2010 7:56:00 PM   
Andalusite


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So, back to what LA was saying a page or so ago, I agree that the specifics of how a person interacts with their dominant or submissive is influenced by their gender, but that there is no way to reliably break down the differences between all M/f vs. all F/m relationships. Over in http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3221387 I had the impression that in general, men are expected to be "alpha" in personality, regardless of their D/s orientation or lack thereof, whereas women tend to be more accepted regardless of their social dominance, in whichever role. There are some exceptions, and a few people, such as Jeff (leadership) have expressed that they are only comfortable with dominating women who are socially submissive, because they feel that someone who is socially dominant is, on some level, pretending to submit or putting on a mask.

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 5/30/2010 9:32:35 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

"alpha"


I have often wonder if "alpha" was code for high paying job.


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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 5/31/2010 11:05:49 AM   
Andalusite


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Nah, that's not the impression I get. Just that guys are expected to always be assertive, take-charge, and so forth. It probably isn't quite that universal, but it does seem to be a very common stereotypical expectation.

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 5/31/2010 11:17:53 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

"alpha"


I have often wonder if "alpha" was code for high paying job.



I've often wondered whether 'alpha' was meant to convey something even more cretinous - that, for instance, it's an admirable thing for humans to act like jackals.   At best, people don't seem to distinguish between that kind of ruthless man who gets to the top by looking after himself, alone - or that type of man who gets to the top because people see that he's good at leading others in a protective way.  Unfortunately, the former sort of 'alpha' seems to be very good at convincing others that he's the latter sort. 

Whatever.  I think my feelings about 'alpha males' are roughly equivalent to many womens' views about  the way men use the phrase 'slim and beautiful women'.

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 5/31/2010 11:28:24 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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FWIW, I take alpha to mean independent, intelligent, proactive, not in need of an auxiliary brain... The opposite of berk.

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 5/31/2010 12:10:08 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

FWIW, I take alpha to mean independent, intelligent, proactive, not in need of an auxiliary brain... The opposite of berk.


  Since when did you start using the word 'berk'?

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 5/31/2010 1:48:48 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

FWIW, I take alpha to mean independent, intelligent, proactive, not in need of an auxiliary brain... The opposite of berk.


  Since when did you start using the word 'berk'?


All along, with those who know what I'm talking about!

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 5/31/2010 2:24:26 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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My full-time experiences have been with a multi-dominant, multi-submissive household, over time (I've been part of the House for about 15 years now, though my experiences in the community go back another 10 before that). The fact that we are a poly household and that our household has been comprised of dominant, submissive, mixed, and neutral personalities provides interesting perspective, I think... but at the same time, it limits the pool to individuals who are/would be happy in a group-oriented situation, rather than being exclusively either female dominant or male dominant oriented from the leadership perspective/female submissive or male submissive oriented from the yielding perspective. Because of that, our experience may not be reflective of the majority of the community. So use what seems useful, and discard anything that doesn't make sense for your own observations.

quote:

- What are the main differences between the two?


In our experience, the only "difference" that relates solely to gender is the equipment. Everything else is strictly individual preference... sexual vs. asexual orientation; strict vs. relaxed discipline; micromanagement vs. extended delegation... those are present in both male and female dominants among us... so the "differences" we've experienced have only been cosmetic in relation to gender, although each of our Keepers has hir own style.

quote:

- What are the similarities?
Both male and female dominant individuals like to be in charge of their own lives and like to have some measure of control over the lives of those who yield to them.
quote:

- In which of the two is the domination usually more strict?

This doesn't seem to have a gender correlation in our experience. We have extremely strict male and female dominants, and we also have some who are very laissez-faire about their roles.
quote:

- Which is more risky?
Risky in what way? On this one, I'm not sure I understand the question.

quote:

- Are there differences in style of domination and submission in them?

Most of the differences we've seen are more related to individuals than to genders. Practical experience has shown that most of the stereotypes attributed to either male domination or female domination, at least in our household, are much more flexible and can be present and expressed by either gender.

quote:

- What about the subs? What are the differences between male subs and female subs?
Like the dominants, the differences between male and female submissive individuals tends, in our experience, to be cosmetic more than anything else.
quote:

- Who of them are usually more obedient, male subs or female subs? Who have more limits?

While our experience with both male and female submissive individuals has shown both to have equal capacity to obedience, we've also noted that females tend to have more insecurity and more "limits" when they come to us. It is our experience that this is a protective feature, as women often perceive a greater danger to themselves (either physically or emotionally) at the outset of a relationship than males do. Over time, though, we find that the "limits" becomes a balanced aspect of the relationship more quickly for females as well, once they realize that they are safe and secure. By the time a year has gone by, our servants of either gender are pretty much indistinguishable in quantity and quality when limits are evaluated, and, in fact, most of them have chosen to leave the setting and releasing of boundaries to the Keepers of the house, since they know that, regardless of gender, we will care for and protect those who have yielded themselves to us.

quote:

- And what about the Dominants? What are the differences between male dominants and female dominants?
See Question 1

- Which is easier to implement, maledom relationship or femdom relationship?

No authority based relationship is "easy" to implement. They require due diligence on the part of both the dominant and the submissive individual. This section is primarily me speaking, and I can't really speak as a male dominant, though, in asking our male dominant members, they also assure me that there is no "easy" implementation... just taking your time, learning each other, and finding a way to make what you -want- from your relationship what you -get- out of it.

For me, I've found that -any- relationship worth having is going to take substantial effort to get going -- and if someone is looking for an 'easy' relationship, they're not someone I'd want to enter into a relationship with in the first place.

quote:

Note: I am asking only about real-life full 24/7 D/s relationships, not about the fantasy, porn, or pro-domming.
Also, I don't include online relationships.


There isn't anyone in our household who finds online relationships fulfilling, but I have to offer, as a caveat, that I've actually met some folks whose online relationships were more solid and fulfilling than many marriages I've encountered.

Calla



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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 6/1/2010 9:24:35 PM   
cloudboy


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Here you go.

"It's a commonly known fact that women are more attracted to alpha males than any other type of guy. Regardless of the culture or the country, men who don't display alpha male characteristics always have a difficult time attracting and maintaining the interest of women. They also find that other alpha males don't show them much respect in social situations."

In East Coast high school jargon, "it always helps to captain of the Lacrosse team."

We can't have LH confusing us about what an Alpha Male really is.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/1/2010 9:26:42 PM >

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 6/1/2010 9:29:22 PM   
IronBear


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Captain of the Lacrosse team? Strange that I would have though it would be better to be the QB of the Football Team, or is he by mutual consent reserved exclusively for the Cheerleaders? ... 

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 6/2/2010 1:02:46 PM   
cloudboy


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That helps to, as does being the CEO of a corporation. Movie-Rock-TV-Sports star status is a bonus.

Big Bonus..... Very big bonus.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/2/2010 1:03:30 PM >

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 6/2/2010 2:59:20 PM   
porcelaine


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cloudboy,

quote:

"It's a commonly known fact that women are more attracted to alpha males than any other type of guy.


I don't know how true that is for most women but it is dead on for me. However, I don't believe that personality type is widely represented in BDSM circles.

quote:

Regardless of the culture or the country, men who don't display alpha male characteristics always have a difficult time attracting and maintaining the interest of women.


I'm not fond of the absolutes used. However, what I notice in my personal experiences is that those of a different leaning - either naturally or as expressed through dominance - rarely resonate with me.

~porcelaine


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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 6/2/2010 3:28:51 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
I don't know how true that is for most women but it is dead on for me. However, I don't believe that personality type is widely represented in BDSM circles.
I think it's also worth noting that the particular person doing the evaluation of "alpha" will be applying their own definitions. In gross generalities, a woman who is thinking of "alpha" in the form of "Navy SEAL" would not think of me as an alpha. Generally we are talking about "a person who has appreciable success and/or leadership skills and/or physical competence"... but interpretation of what constitutes that is going to be all across the boards.

My general feel about the representation of what I personally would call "alpha" in BDSM circles is that it is about the same as it is in the larger population -- neither under-represented or over-represented. Among dominants I would say that it is slightly over-represented since clearly the extremely submissive end of the spectrum doesn't even think about the dominant label. But reality, as always, largely exists in the hump in the bell curve. The statistical outliers on either pointy end are interesting to look at, but don't represent a large enough population to actually influence things much.

Put differently, if all the subs who say they want a top 5% alpha-male actually held out for that, they'd be in serious trouble. You'd have hundreds of subs competing for every "alpha" dom.

All that being said, I do agree that in broad generalities, women find a man they assess to be "alpha" attractive. I see it as the analogue of men finding women they assess as physically sexy to be attractive. In my opinion, wise people of either gender do not select a life-mate on the basis of a single criterion.

_____________________________

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 6/2/2010 3:58:32 PM   
porcelaine


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leadership527,

quote:

Put differently, if all the subs who say they want a top 5% alpha-male actually held out for that, they'd be in serious trouble. You'd have hundreds of subs competing for every "alpha" dom.


I agree most aren't looking for mister top five and I'd wager that he needn't be an alpha either. Rather someone who's in possession of the criteria they seek in a dominant. I don't believe the traits are mutually exclusive to alpha men.

quote:

All that being said, I do agree that in broad generalities, women find a man they assess to be "alpha" attractive. I see it as the analogue of men finding women they assess as physically sexy to be attractive. In my opinion, wise people of either gender do not select a life-mate on the basis of a single criterion.


Assess being the figurative word. It's a different animal when he says it. In terms of the criterion utilized in mate selection, preferences will be weighted differently. To an outsider it could appear that it's singular as stated. However it may simply be something they're unwilling to compromise instead.

~porcelaine


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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 6/2/2010 4:07:16 PM   
PeonForHer


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Perhaps the most 'alpha' like qualities of humans are those which most resemble those of the alphas of our closest primate cousins - such as the silverbacks of gorilla families. 

In which case, if a woman says she's searching for an alpha male, what she might actually be saying is that she's looking for a big fat bloke with grey hair who can grunt really loudly. 

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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 6/2/2010 7:24:25 PM   
cloudboy


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Mind you the material you quoted was from a dating site offering a program to turn regular Joes into Alpha males. I was using it in a tongue and cheek fashion, but the professionals out there giving guys dating advise are making money from their offerings and strategies.


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RE: Maledom relationships vs. Femdom relationships - 7/17/2010 10:58:34 AM   
txurinal


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Having submitted to both male and female dominants, my experience is that the males are stricter and have a more "no nonsense" attitude.

Female dominants tend to be more verbal. Male dominates more into action. Discipline from a male tends to be heavier but then males tend to be stronger.

Having been slapped by both males and females, it hurts more from the male. It has also been my experience that heterosexual males tend to focus on BDSM and less on the sexuality of a male submissive. Some of the best sessions i have ever had have been with straight male dominants

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