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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/28/2010 3:44:52 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I'm sure he had a working knowledge of Diogenes, dig?



It would be expected that he would go to the source.
Pretty much the bassis of all intellectual thought.
It would not surprise me if he read it in the original.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/28/2010 3:45:36 PM >

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/28/2010 3:46:22 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Don't most take the line that Diogenes thang was more a criticism of other intellectual schools of thought than anything very original?

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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/28/2010 4:08:38 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Don't most take the line that Diogenes thang was more a criticism of other intellectual schools of thought than anything very original?


That was a criticism that was leveled at them by some of their critics.
From their own perspective they were simply pointing out the obvious.
While their goal was personal intellectual and spiritual growth, they felt that material concerns were an obstical to that growth.
ie: If one is busy trying to screw others it is difficult to contemplate the higher plane.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/28/2010 4:09:21 PM >

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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/28/2010 4:10:11 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		It's called "Lady Liberty" not "Lady Immigration."

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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/28/2010 4:13:04 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Don't most take the line that Diogenes thang was more a criticism of other intellectual schools of thought than anything very original?


That was a criticism that was leveled at them by some of their critics.
From their own perspective they were simply pointing out the obvious.
While their goal was personal intellectual and spiritual growth, they felt that material concerns were an obstical to that growth.
ie: If one is busy trying to screw others it is difficult to contemplate the higher plane.


I do love that story about the plucked chicken. The man was one of the greatest wits of all time.

Popeye: are you sure about that? Looking at the arse on her, she's the immigrant Jennifer Lopez in a daft costume.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/28/2010 4:34:33 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

I do love that story about the plucked chicken. The man was one of the greatest wits of all time.


You had he we had dubya:
dubya was unintentionally funny but hardly a wit.

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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/28/2010 8:14:20 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

My preference would be to eliminate personal subsidies on the public nickel (i.e., food stamps and welfare payments), strengthen public goods (such as community gardens and free education at ALL levels, which would allow flexibility to those of us in the labor force without incentivizing long periods of unemployment) and open the boarders to let the market do its work. Markets tend to diffuse racial, national, and ethnic tensions because, the better and more EXPLICITLY they funciton, the more we all see we need one another (capital needs labor and vice versa), and the more we each see that every other is an opportunity to cooperate for mutual benefit, rather than a threat to our own economic security.


I wonder if you are aware that the Welfare program underwent reform in 1996 and is now called Temporary Assistance to Needy Families and that most of the money goes to families with dependent children. Probably some nine million children or more. You would take food stamps away from families with kids? I wonder what your thinking is.

I am also amused by your faith in free markets to diffuse "racial, national, and ethnic tensions." I am not sure how you can justify that statement in the face of a long history of exploitation of Labor by Capital. Need you be reminded of slavery, child labor, the great railroad strikes and lockouts of the 1877, the incidents at Haymarket Square in Chicago and the Triangle Shirt Factory fire in NYC.

And you offer what... community gardens? Really?

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/28/2010 8:28:31 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Diem Bien Phu was in 1954 .... about seven years before Kennedy began "officially" sending in Sp Ops. I think there is historical concensus (me and a couple other guys ) we were wiping up the shit left by French Colonialism (by stupidly substituting American Colonialism)

Oh sure, they'd left a bit of a mess behind them.
I did find it very strange that your army made exactly the same daft mistake at dien bien phu as the Foreign Legion did, really. Still, if Kennedy and Johnson had paid any attention to recent colonial history, they wouldn't have got you in there in the first place, I suppose.


Sheesh, Moon, I think we are in agreement here. But as ThompsonX points out, it began for the US well before Kennedy took office. American Presidents did not even learn anything from the colonization of the Philippines and the two year insurgency we faced there at the turn of the last century. Cripes, they never learn!


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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/28/2010 8:32:09 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Diem Bien Phu was in 1954 .... about seven years before Kennedy began "officially" sending in Sp Ops. I think there is historical concensus (me and a couple other guys ) we were wiping up the shit left by French Colonialism (by stupidly substituting American Colonialism)


Truman had the britts rearm the japs to fight the viet minh. The u.s. had spent over a billion dollars and supplied more than 300,000 small arms to the french before 1954.
The usmc flew air support and supply for the french at dien bien phu.


I read somewhere that Ho Chi Minh sent several letters to Truman asking for wilsonian self-determination, but the letters went unanswered. Perhaps you have better info on that than I do.

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/29/2010 5:39:57 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		The story I always love about French Indochina is the one about most of the rank and file of the Foreign Legion around the turn of the '50s being deserters from the Waffen SS who'd joined up to get new papers. The fact that these tossers got wiped out at dien bien phu fighting for the French always gives me a warm glow. Very wrong of me, I know, but I've always loved irony.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/29/2010 8:18:34 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The story I always love about French Indochina is the one about most of the rank and file of the Foreign Legion around the turn of the '50s being deserters from the Waffen SS who'd joined up to get new papers. The fact that these tossers got wiped out at dien bien phu fighting for the French always gives me a warm glow. Very wrong of me, I know, but I've always loved irony.


If you are a movie fan, here are two I thought were pretty good re the 1950s in Vietnam:

Indochine

The Quiet American

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vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/29/2010 11:13:19 AM   
realcoolhand


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

"cynic: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be" [Ambrose Bierce The Devil's Dictionary]



Good for you Thompsonx; you can quote a man who could think for himself. That's a start, at least.

Now that we're past semantics, where's that analysis you promised?

< Message edited by realcoolhand -- 5/29/2010 11:15:19 AM >

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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/29/2010 11:26:18 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The story I always love about French Indochina is the one about most of the rank and file of the Foreign Legion around the turn of the '50s being deserters from the Waffen SS who'd joined up to get new papers. The fact that these tossers got wiped out at dien bien phu fighting for the French always gives me a warm glow. Very wrong of me, I know, but I've always loved irony.


If you are a movie fan, here are two I thought were pretty good re the 1950s in Vietnam:

Indochine

The Quiet American

Thank you. I haven't seen either of those, so I'll keep an eye out for them.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/30/2010 6:19:07 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Diem Bien Phu was in 1954 .... about seven years before Kennedy began "officially" sending in Sp Ops. I think there is historical concensus (me and a couple other guys ) we were wiping up the shit left by French Colonialism (by stupidly substituting American Colonialism)


Truman had the britts rearm the japs to fight the viet minh. The u.s. had spent over a billion dollars and supplied more than 300,000 small arms to the french before 1954.
The usmc flew air support and supply for the french at dien bien phu.


I read somewhere that Ho Chi Minh sent several letters to Truman asking for wilsonian self-determination, but the letters went unanswered. Perhaps you have better info on that than I do.


Your memory is spot on.
As to whether truman answered or not my memory is to the effect of "fuck you short person of dark skin color. You are an inferior human specie and your rightful masters are the french". Probalby gussied up a bit with more diplomatic language.

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/30/2010 6:31:32 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The story I always love about French Indochina is the one about most of the rank and file of the Foreign Legion around the turn of the '50s being deserters from the Waffen SS who'd joined up to get new papers. The fact that these tossers got wiped out at dien bien phu fighting for the French always gives me a warm glow. Very wrong of me, I know, but I've always loved irony.


While there were a lot of former ss boiz in the band I don't remember them being in a majority.
Aside from their ethical compass pointing straight up thier asses they were excellent warriors. Not only did they fight ferociously and well even in defeat they were defiant. One of the wounded snuck into the hooch where the viet minh had stashed all of the surrendered batallion colours and stole his batallions guidon colours back and used it as a bandage under his uniform and got it back to france...gotta give him props for balls.
Your glee is to be tempered a bit I fear because the ffl only had two battalions at dien bien phu. about 30% or there abouts of the total french forces of about fifteen or sixteen thousand. On the up side when the french surrendered the viet minh recovered several thousand cases of prime french wine...way kewel.
Benard fall wrote a pretty interesting account of the battle I think the book was called "hell in a very small place"
When I was in country I wanted to go walk the battle field but for lots of reasons I was never able to actually get my feet on the ground there but I did manage several flights over the area but never got lower than about 5000 feet.
The french had a pretty good plan except, like custer, they never imagined there were that many "indians" or that they would be so well armed and such good shots.
In short they went to an ass kicking contest barefoot.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/30/2010 6:37:06 PM >

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Statue of Liberty - 5/30/2010 6:46:44 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: realcoolhand


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

"cynic: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be" [Ambrose Bierce The Devil's Dictionary]



Good for you Thompsonx; you can quote a man who could think for himself. That's a start, at least.

Now that we're past semantics, where's that analysis you promised?


Young man, it is not a case of semantics it is a case of your using words without knowing the meaning.
You asked for clarification(analysis-your word not mine) of the meaning I supplied it and suggested you acquire a dictionary so I would not be so troubled in the future.
Was there something else you needed help with?

(in reply to realcoolhand)
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