RE: Slavery is bullshit (Full Version)

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WyldHrt -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/2/2010 11:43:25 PM)

quote:

I can easily recall back to my entry into this weird world of whips and tarps and blood spatters and slaves and whatnot. My "derision" (not exactly an accurate term) was born simply of a total shock to my world view. I was caught between my old familiar understandings of "how relationships work" which were clearly inaccurate and this new world where inexplicable things seemed common place. It wasn't so much either fear or identification with anything... it was just utter confusion.

So we noticed [;)]



leadership527 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/2/2010 11:45:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt
So we noticed [;)]
Yeah, I'm still utterly confused... just about different topics now *laughs*



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/2/2010 11:48:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
Sometimes the things that others demean are aspects of themselves they're unable to accept.
Down here in the dungeon we simply refer to this as "Ya spot it, ya got it." syndrome.


The pitfall with "Ya Spot it, ya got it" syndrome is that just because somebody spots it does not automatically mean they got it. However, there's a good chance they have at least encountered it before. If they demean it, it's because of some negative view, personal experience or encounter they have had with it. Be it in themselves or somebody they know or have known.

At times it's best to raise an eyebrow, and take note of it, observe a little more and engage in conversation to truely figure it out. Most of the time, it's simply not worth the effort to figure it out, unless it effects you or somebody close to you.



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/2/2010 11:54:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
I can easily recall back to my entry into this weird world of whips and tarps and blood spatters and slaves and whatnot. My "derision" (not exactly an accurate term) was born simply of a total shock to my world view. I was caught between my old familiar understandings of "how relationships work" which were clearly inaccurate and this new world where inexplicable things seemed common place. It wasn't so much either fear or identification with anything... it was just utter confusion.


LOL, I still remember your early message board postings. Think you were questioning your sanity and where the hell you exactly fit into things.

For me, this wierd world cleared a lot of confusion. Mind you, it does have it moments when I'm confused. But that's the beauty of it all, that there's diversity amoung people in this world.



WyldHrt -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 12:00:36 AM)

quote:

Yeah, I'm still utterly confused... just about different topics now *laughs*

Ummm... you might want to schedule some vacation time after the June party at Merc's.... just sayin' [:D]



WyldHrt -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 12:06:09 AM)

quote:

Is the first always clingy and desperate? Inherent need is in all of us for something, but what makes us "weak" has many reasons. The problem with your version of the dichotomy is (what seems) assumption of this or that. The picture is much more nuanced and much less absolute among so many people—certainly you know this to be true with experience.

I'm a big believer in inherent need, but that doesn't take away one's ability to place that need wisely in the right hands, and having that sense about you doesn't mean you have to be distant and indomitable. Though I can appreciate the exclusive conquest that otherwise could have never been until the almighty "chosen one" appeared, I tend to find that those who need to harp on that paradigm and wear it like a badge are more often than not very self-impressed.

Bingo! Marc gets my vote for "Post of the Day" on this one.



porcelaine -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 12:21:42 AM)

Kana,

quote:

Down here in the dungeon we simply refer to this as "Ya spot it, ya got it." syndrome.


*laughs* You and your little shop of horrors.

~porcelaine



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 12:43:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Yeah, I'm still utterly confused... just about different topics now *laughs*


I'm confused about some topics too, such as why a Lesbian slave girl would be seeking out a dude to become her master. The oxymorons and paradox of things just amazes me at times. Life is full of contradictions.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 4:19:19 AM)

~ FAST CIAO! ~

quote:

Slavery is bullshit


It sure is! So, as are used in these forums, the terms Master, Dominant and submissive for that matter. The only appropriate term in common practice which describes all people is 'switch'. EVERYONE submits to someone, or something, every day. For instance, people submit to traffic laws, unless of course you are Neapolitan driving in Italy where 'red' is only a "suggestion" to slow down or perhaps stop if the mood strikes you. Few are Seinfeld daily "Masters of their domain". A Master telling a slave to jump and stay in the air submits to gravety, or the limitations of space travel access.

So why use the term? Honestly I hate it and always have; finding it repulsive to glorify a term which best represts the worst in human nature - the nonconsentual enslaving of other humans. If kajari rolled off my tongue easier, perhaps I'd use it; but then I'd have to be accepting of an 'off-world' concept where the implied implications which would be similiarly personally non-attactive. I 'settled' on the term slave appreciating that it required the recriprical term 'Master'; applying and wearing them with no comfort and standing behind no confident argument for their use.

Best explained; we use the terms as a short cut on-line, or IRL, introduction among fellow 'life-stylers'. (Another obtuse term.) The labels are akin to a 'Hello - my name is....' badge at a convention. As soon as we can - we rip off the damn things off and say, "hello, I'm Merc - this is beth" - and that's it. You really want to know that those labels mean - we're happy to share our 'contract'; but that gets into a whole different discussion - doesn't it? What we do to/with each other and those who we deem trustworthy enough to enjoin us, or our company, isn't defined by any label. Yet - one seems to be needed isn't it?

We've found in our experience labels are needed, and held onto more by those less secure in their representation. Before that generates a point proving rebuttal, consider the key phase - "in our experience" - you experience may, and should, vary.

What comes first - the label or the need and desire? Everyone starts with a fantasy right? With apprehension you try to fulfill it. That takes a partner. To find one ASAP you need a shortcut. A lengthy detailed resume is socially awkward - check any profile page as supporting evidence. Words suck to convey desire. 'Spanking' ranges from a swat as you pass by, to a session with Kane of 'LA LAIR de SADE' - you better substantiate the meaning before thinking you have a word agreement. Labels provide a shortcut to wants and needs and experimentation. Once meeting a potential partner they begin to have meaning.

Wants/Needs seem to be a rationalized means to and end. Michael's hot button is "inspired" slavery, or at least submission since he's applied the BS label to that term. To me "inspiration" is too difficult a job. I don't know if I'm a 'Master' or not - but I do know coming home from a job - I don't want to have to, or need to, "inspire" anyone to do anything. I want a someone to submit to me. beth is that someone. If she considers herself "inspired" - good for her; I didn't require it. Quite the contrary, I expect and want her to submit 24/7 whether I'm inspiring or not - and trust me on occasions I am not. From my view there is no difference between inspiring someone and submitting to someone. To 'inspire' you must assume a submission role in the image of the person/persons being inspired to achieve a desired result. Well hell - that's sounds too much like work, needing to be 'on' 24/7 to inspire the dynamic.

Then again - "These are only words - you MUST go through the experiences."

I have mine - Michael has his. Differences and distinctions make good and interesting discussions. I have no need to inspire Michael to agree with any of my position on any matter to deem him a friend. I respect and find it refreshing whenever I encounter an individual who has enough confidence to not list head bobbing agreement as a condition of friendship. Few appreciate that beth and I agree on little politically and on social issues. 'Winning' that ongoing debate isn't a requirement for us being together. The fact that we respect each other's position and can debate intelligently is; although it is frustrating that she doesn't see she is obviously wrong!

What beth and I share is a relationship. As we tell everyone who asks; we are both 'slaves' to that relationship fulfilling complimentary responsibilities. There is no 'role' either of us play. Even on those rare occasions when wearing clothing in the other's company we are alway 'naked' to each other. We say that neither of us inspire the other; yet - on some level maybe that is a rationalization. Maybe at first sight we inspired each other so much we didn't notice it and simply fell into our ongoing inspirational 'roles'. That's the kind of thing we leave to Michael, and others who know us, and even those who don't, to decide. It's fun and interesting but the bottom line is - good or bad - outside opinions are irrelevant to us.

What are we; Master/slave - Dominant/submissive - the 'WE' is the most important. We're just a couple of average folk enjoying the hell out of, and having more FUN, in our life than we believed possible before we met. Call us anything but be sure and call us for the party!

Speaking of parties - REALLY Michael, you generated a (thus far) 23 page semantic debate?! Congratulations - you are well on your way to being a 'true' sadist! Getting 'some' regularly really does agree with you! See you on the 26th - and YES - the party will be up to the usual standard I'm sure. Reading some of the posts here; I think the PVE police will need SWAT support from LA. Remember - As per local ordinance - No outside "orgy sounds" after 10PM.

Today we're off to check out the ruins of Pompeii. I'll check and let you know if there are any ancient CM type graffiti with "one true way - 'slave'" discussions among the ruins.

CIAO!

Speaking of parties - Italy is a PARTY country! DAMN! Food doesn't suck either!



SimplyMichael -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 8:38:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Speaking of parties - REALLY Michael, you generated a (thus far) 23 page semantic debate?! Congratulations - you are well on your way to being a 'true' sadist! Getting 'some' regularly really does agree with you! See you on the 26th - and YES - the party will be up to the usual standard I'm sure. Reading some of the posts here; I think the PVE police will need SWAT support from LA. Remember - As per local ordinance - No outside "orgy sounds" after 10PM.



Great post Merc! I really liked what you wrote here. I wonder what inspired this post? In case you don't know, I am really looking forward to getting this thread to 40 pages. So all your friends look forward to seeing you and Beth.

quote:



Speaking of parties - Italy is a PARTY country! DAMN! Food doesn't suck either!


I have always wanted to go to glorious Italy, I have been to other places in Europe but I haven't been there. Telling us how wonderful the food is there is rather sadistic of you, you know. So, have you visited the various pagan ruins? I want to see those rather than those erected to serve the christian god if only because they are more ancient.



subtee -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 9:02:29 AM)

Hahahahaha! Simply awesome.



osf -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 9:06:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

We all deride something, Leadership527 posts on a bdsm board telling us how he isn't into bdsm. I post in the hopes of felling windmills. But where some see a glorious bitch, I see a woman worth taming. To each their own!

The trick in life for me at least is to try and rise above the pettiness..I don't always master it much like yourself but I do continue to work on it.

The only windmills I see are the ones you build for yourself, Michael..

Just a personal observation over time..I've seen more than one person go after females that they thought needed taming only to find out after they had "Conquered" them..The thrill was gone.

As you say though..Each to their own.





I prefer women that come as what they say they are and don't need to be tamed, that seems like a power struggle to me and usually never ends.

Now any submissive will test the boundries to assure herself they are still there and this is to be expected.


All I want is an adult woman with fire in her belly to serve and no drama. Now some may think that boring but living with a woman of any kind is far from boring if you take a real interest in her.




BitaTruble -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 9:20:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

For instance, people submit to traffic laws, unless of course you are Neapolitan driving in Italy where 'red' is only a "suggestion" to slow down or perhaps stop if the mood strikes you.


That holds true up here in the north as well. Stop lights are optional, lanes are build your own and I have come to the conclusion that the bravest people in the whole world are those who ride a bicycle on the streets of Milan where sidewalks aren't just for people (most of the cars are small so they sorta fit) traffic cops deserve combat pay and I'm pretty sure that double and triple parking is mandatory. [;)]



whipmaker7 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 1:41:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ FAST CIAO! ~

quote:

Slavery is bullshit


It sure is! So, as are used in these forums, the terms Master, Dominant and submissive for that matter. The only appropriate term in common practice which describes all people is 'switch'. EVERYONE submits to someone, or something, every day. For instance, people submit to traffic laws, unless of course you are Neapolitan driving in Italy where 'red' is only a "suggestion" to slow down or perhaps stop if the mood strikes you. Few are Seinfeld daily "Masters of their domain". A Master telling a slave to jump and stay in the air submits to gravety, or the limitations of space travel access.

So why use the term?



...Huh?
You're using traffic lights and gravity to prove slavery is bullshit? lol, interesting. I'll have what your smoking.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 2:18:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: whipmaker7

...Huh?
You're using traffic lights and gravity to prove slavery is bullshit? lol, interesting. I'll have what your smoking.


If you did, I wouldn't recomend driving afterwards. Oh, and stay away from the jello shots...



Jeffff -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 2:48:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ FAST CIAO! ~

quote:

Slavery is bullshit


It sure is! So, as are used in these forums, the terms Master, Dominant and submissive for that matter. The only appropriate term in common practice which describes all people is 'switch'. EVERYONE submits to someone, or something, every day.



I can't shop on line........... I can't bring myself to click the "submit" button



laurell3 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 3:08:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


What beth and I share is a relationship. As we tell everyone who asks; we are both 'slaves' to that relationship fulfilling complimentary responsibilities. There is no 'role' either of us play. Even on those rare occasions when wearing clothing in the other's company we are alway 'naked' to each other. We say that neither of us inspire the other; yet - on some level maybe that is a rationalization. Maybe at first sight we inspired each other so much we didn't notice it and simply fell into our ongoing inspirational 'roles'. That's the kind of thing we leave to Michael, and others who know us, and even those who don't, to decide. It's fun and interesting but the bottom line is - good or bad - outside opinions are irrelevant to us.

What are we; Master/slave - Dominant/submissive - the 'WE' is the most important. We're just a couple of average folk enjoying the hell out of, and having more FUN, in our life than we believed possible before we met.



Yep in the end I think this is what the 23 page debate boils down to. Oh and YARN!



Ishtarr -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 3:15:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I can't shop on line........... I can't bring myself to click the "submit" button


I guess you'll need to find a slave who has no problem submitting.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 3:17:56 PM)

You mean this whole thread wasn't about yarn?? Dang. I only pay attention to the good parts, I guess! [;)]



Icarys -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (6/3/2010 3:19:56 PM)

quote:

I guess you'll need to find a slave who has no problem submitting.

That's a unicorn these days. :>



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