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RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 3:10:16 AM

DarkSteven

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IMO, a slave mentality is wanting to turn control over to another person. That is one differdnce ebtween your and my concepts of a slave mentality. The other is the desire to please (or at least take orders from) another person.

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Post #: 21

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 3:21:11 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
IMO, a slave mentality is wanting to turn control over to another person. That is one differdnce ebtween your and my concepts of a slave mentality. The other is the desire to please (or at least take orders from) another person.

I believe the word "enslavement" applies though... it would be apparent though he ended up doing things so as to not displease at his own expense. In a sense he was trying to actually please. However, it's apparent he's driven out of fear of displeasing verses the warm and fuzzy feelings of pleasing.

The motivation being all the difference here.

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Post #: 22

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 3:42:48 AM

SocratesNot

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Whiplashsmile4, thank you for your response.
I'll re-read it few times, because I really think it has lots of good points.

When it comes to this girl, I have known her since nursery school ( which is around as long as I exist at all - 20+ years)
She was a very good friend of mine during the childhood.
She had to do her homework on computer, and she is not very technically savvy, so without my help, she would probably be unable to do it.
However, you are right that it was her responsibility, not mine.
She asked me to help her in a very nasty moment for me, because at the same time I had to do a lot of stuff for myself.
But still, I wasn't glad to help her (even if I did), because I felt it was not fair to ask me such thing in such moment without even wondering if I have some of my own stuff to do. That's why I thought it was exploitation. But still, I knew her for too long, and she insisted very much that I help her, so finally she persuaded me,
at the beginning I said, no, but after some pressure I accepted to help her with this.

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Post #: 23

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 3:55:32 AM

GraciousLady

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Your not enslaved to anything but your own concept of what you want to believe to be enslavement. This is obseessive compulsive disorder or just a want or need to belong to something but your to self focused to to be obsessed with anything but yourself.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 24

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 3:57:54 AM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

I think that, to a certain extent, I have a slave mentality.

just....no.

To expand on what the lovely Wyld says (smooches), not even slightly. I can only imagine what would happen if I told my Master I hadn't done something because I was "compelled" to listen to music instead. Let's just say I would not sit, walk, or stand comfortably for a very long time.

Having a slave mentality is no excuse for abdicating responsibility. If there is something that needs to get done I'm expected to do it and barring unforeseen complications, in which case I'm expected to tell him about it/them and either I continue or it's changed if it's not possible to get it done.

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Post #: 25

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 4:05:30 AM

Aileen1968

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Once again... I think you are really making life way too complicated.
I have never been one to analyze (or in your case, overanalyze) all the things in my life.
If it makes me feel good then I go with the flow. I don't give a fuck if it's called slave or submissive or whatever the new word will be in a year.
It works between him and I and that's all that matters.

You OP, are too caught up in labels and definitions and all the why's and why not's.
People do not fit neatly into little boxes.

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Post #: 26

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 4:05:43 AM

SocratesNot

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quote:

Your not enslaved to anything but your own concept of what you want to believe to be enslavement. This is obsessive compulsive disorder or just a want or need to belong to something but your to self focused to to be obsessed with anything but yourself.

Maybe you are right that I am too self focused. I actually spent a lot of time alone in my life. I am the only child in my family, and my father left us when I was 5, so after that time I live only with my mother.
When it comes to OCD, I don't think that I have it, because it is usually ritualistic and ritualistic actions are performed in order to alleviate anxiety (for example obsessive hand washing if you are afraid of infection). In my case, those obsessions were more like duties. I felt duty to do them in order to achieve some self-imposed goal such as increasing my knowledge about films or music or literature, or gettin in better shape etc. So, all of them were probably not proper addictions nor obsessions, but more like self-imposed duties that I felt bad if I neglect.

I think we should try to move away from my case and try to see other opinions and examples on what "slave mentality" actually means.

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 6/2/2010 4:45:02 AM >

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Post #: 27

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 4:08:12 AM

SocratesNot

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quote:

People do not fit neatly into little boxes.

Fucking little boxes! How many times will this phrase be repeated? "You are putting people into little boxes!"
I didn't even mention other people!
I just explained some tendencies in my own life and asked if someone else experienced anything similar.

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 6/2/2010 4:11:51 AM >

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Post #: 28

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 4:17:03 AM

ShoreBound149

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I don't see anything wrong with trying to fit into a neat little box.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Aileen's box.

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Post #: 29

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 4:18:20 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Whiplashsmile4, thank you for your response.
I'll re-read it few times, because I really think it has lots of good points.

When it comes to this girl, I have known her since nursery school ( which is around as long as I exist at all - 20+ years)
She was a very good friend of mine during the childhood.
She had to do her homework on computer, and she is not very technically savvy, so without my help, she would probably be unable to do it.
However, you are right that it was her responsibility, not mine.
She asked me to help her in a very nasty moment for me, because at the same time I had to do a lot of stuff for myself.
But still, I wasn't glad to help her (even if I did), because I felt it was not fair to ask me such thing in such moment without even wondering if I have some of my own stuff to do. That's why I thought it was exploitation. But still, I knew her for too long, and she insisted very much that I help her, so finally she persuaded me,
at the beginning I said, no, but after some pressure I accepted to help her with this.

Fast reply to this. While you are kicking yourself in the ass for doing this, also be proud that you actually helped her out. Otherwise, resentment might grow or take hold towards her. It's easy to take regret in past choices and even harder to take pride when those choices turned out to not be so wise. What I'm expressing is to "Stand by your own choices regardless if they are or are not mistakes". Even more so if knew of the sarcifices or suspected the negative impact it would have on you.

So much for fast reply... From the sounds of it, she is/was not up to speed in her computer skills for whatever reason. She needed or should have invested more time in developing the required computer skills to carry out her assignment. I know this has been tossed out on the boards before, but there's a big difference between teaching somebody how to Fish, and catching all the fish for them.

Whatever issues or reasons why she did not, or does not have the required computer skills will be an ongoing issue that is again her responsibility. As friend, you might want to remind her of her own obligations and responsibilities she has to herself, her education or skills to function in the world. I don't know the reasons why she was not up speed on these skills, however that's an issue she best knows and needs to figure out how to overcome, with or without help overcoming it.

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Post #: 30

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 4:42:06 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

Your not enslaved to anything but your own concept of what you want to believe to be enslavement. This is obsessive compulsive disorder or just a want or need to belong to something but your to self focused to to be obsessed with anything but yourself.

Maybe you are right that I am too self focused. I actually spent a lot of time alone in my life. I am the only child in my family, and my father left us when I was 5, so after that time I love only with my mother.
When it comes to OCD, I don't think that I have it, because it is usually ritualistic and ritualistic actions are performed in order to alleviate anxiety (for example obsessive hand washing if you are afraid of infection). In my case, those obsessions were more like duties. I felt duty to do them in order to achieve some self-imposed goal such as increasing my knowledge about films or music or literature, or gettin in better shape etc. So, all of them were probably not proper addictions nor obsessions, but more like self-imposed duties that I felt bad if I neglect.

I think we should try to move away from my case and try to see other opinions and examples on what "slave mentality" actually means.

Slave mentality generally speaking is the desire to be in the entrusted care of one you wish to serve or be of service to. Where you find purpose of fillfullment in being of service to another. Where your own will becomes that of the other person. Where you actively waiting to fillfull their desires and wishes. This might sound cheezy, but think about the TV show "I Dream of Jennie". She was always trying to find ways to please her "Master" dispite how misguided she was at times. However, in this case remove the misguideness and replace it with Guidence. Another way to look at it, think of yourself as being a willing Servant or whatever else.

This is where things get to be complex, some slaves are only into being Sexual Slaves and suck at Domestic Service. Well that would sort of suck for an owner that wants both SEX and Domestic housework done. However would be a perfect match for an Owner that was interested in the Sexual aspects and could care less if the joint was a mess or not. Do you see where one case would not be a match and the other would be?

A slave that was not into a pain and no desire to experience it, would not be a good match for a Sadistic Owner. However, would be better suited for an Owner that was not Sadistic.

With the correct match up's it's possible to obtain TPE (well close to it). Human nature tends to fuck with Absolutes, this is reality. Some people don't adopt the TPE label because of this flaw that realism brings. There has to be room for acceptence and a certain degree of tolerence.

In a nutshell, finding somebody you are compatible with applys here in BDSM-land just as much as it does in the vanilla world. There is a wide range of varience without much in the way of absolutes. Any Absolutes are very generalized. Again Absolutes are very generalized at best.

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Post #: 31

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 5:10:27 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
IMO, a slave mentality is wanting to turn control over to another person. That is one differdnce ebtween your and my concepts of a slave mentality. The other is the desire to please (or at least take orders from) another person.

I would hope that both cases co-existed, that they would have the desire to please and to turn the appropriate level of control over. I say Appropriate level of control over because I don't want somebody coming to me every morning asking what color socks they should be wearing for the day. However, if I so choose to take control over what color socks I'd would be expect the control to be turned over to me. I would also be expected to be informed of any possible consequences associated with the control. Not that there would be any major issues over socks. However, if she had to do a lot of walking that day and the socks were not suited for it. Well, you get the idea.

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Post #: 32

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 5:36:58 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

She asked me to help her in a very nasty moment for me, because at the same time I had to do a lot of stuff for myself.
But still, I wasn't glad to help her (even if I did), because I felt it was not fair to ask me such thing in such moment without even wondering if I have some of my own stuff to do. That's why I thought it was exploitation. But still, I knew her for too long, and she insisted very much that I help her, so finally she persuaded me,
at the beginning I said, no, but after some pressure I accepted to help her with this.

Someone with a slave mentality would not have to be "persuaded" "pressured" or felt "not glad to help". The slave mentality would have found ways to be helpful, would have desired and found incredible pleasure from being asked.

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RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 5:46:06 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
To expand on what the lovely Wyld says (smooches), not even slightly. I can only imagine what would happen if I told my Master I hadn't done something because I was "compelled" to listen to music instead. Let's just say I would not sit, walk, or stand comfortably for a very long time.

What I gleemed from the OP regarding music and things he immersed himself into, was that this were activities he choose to do over going out and socializing or interacting with other people. Basically, pent up time where he isolated himself in his room listening to music or reading. That in part, his social skills have suffered as a result of it some. That this may have something to do, with why he has weak boundaries when interacting with others in person, simply because he's not used to telling other people "no". When he does get the fuck out of the house or interact with people, he does not want to displease other people because he's trying to socialize and not want to loose what little interaction he does manage to achieve with others. (Mind you, I'm formulating my best educated guess deductions based upon information presented in the OP). In a nutshell, his coping skills for dealing with social or peer pressure are weak because he's been a music listening, book reading introvert held up in his room.

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Post #: 34

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 5:54:36 AM

barelynangel

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A slave mentality is very simply and very vague in meaning --- it means that a person has the mentality capable of being mastered completely to the point wherein their autonomy is capable of being manipulated and taken.

Sorry a slave mentality aren't people running around skipping with glee to help everything and everyone. There are many different PERSONALITIES found with a slave mentality and those personalities are what identifies what they find pleasure doing or in. To me, a submissive person would be motivated by pleasure of serving and pleasing others and being helpful than a slave mentality. Yes some people with a slave mentality enjoy pleasing and helping others for the sake of serving so to speak, and many don't.

angel

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RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 6:00:44 AM

sunshinemiss

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Enough about me. What do you think about me?

S.N.
Go do something active. Go bowling. Take a cooking class. Learn to dance the rhumba. Play the drums. Do something besides rattle brain sabers.

best,
sunshine

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RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 6:07:08 AM

dovie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Enough about me. What do you think about me?

LOL. That's called a Narcissist!!

QQ'n to see who started this here thread anyway...

de-coffee'd dovie

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Post #: 37

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 6:45:51 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
A slave mentality is very simply and very vague in meaning --- it means that a person has the mentality capable of being mastered completely to the point wherein their autonomy is capable of being manipulated and taken.

Sorry a slave mentality aren't people running around skipping with glee to help everything and everyone. There are many different PERSONALITIES found with a slave mentality and those personalities are what identifies what they find pleasure doing or in. To me, a submissive person would be motivated by pleasure of serving and pleasing others and being helpful than a slave mentality. Yes some people with a slave mentality enjoy pleasing and helping others for the sake of serving so to speak, and many don't.

angel

While you are covering some additional ground that should be covered regarding "slave mentality", you have excluded those that desire to serve as not being slaves but rather only as submissives. Thus reopening the classic slave vs. sub debate to which there is no true resolution to. I give a two thumbs up for also including "those that have the mentality capable of being mastered completely to the point wherein their autonomy is capable of being manipulated and taken" - that reflects another True and extremely valid facet however does not apply equally to all slaves.

The whole skipping around with glee to help everything and everybody, that's really off base in terms service based submission. It's not all smiles and happy bliss. Hell, it can be a challenge at times and it's not some state of never ending happy bliss. You really can't lump a persons disposition to things like this. Some people have some extremely very happy dispositions, while others not so happy. This is something that depends and varies at the individual level.

Some people don't need to have their autonomy manipulated and taken, they simply give it. As you so expressed and stressed the excellent point.. There are many different PERSONALITIES.

There are also those who seek to become prisoner type of slaves, who desire to be kept literally as prisoners, whereas the motivation and personality plays a major role in things. None the less they still end up Serving as somebody's prisoner because they have the desire to serve as such, and to live as such.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 6/2/2010 6:50:01 AM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 7:07:05 AM

osf

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movies /books

of human bondage

the remains of the day

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Post #: 39

RE: Slave mentality - 6/2/2010 7:29:46 AM

Ishtarr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Oddly - your response to the aspergers thought is classical aspergers ;-)

That's exactly what I was thinking too.

Socrates, I'm not suggesting full-blown asperger, but you at least display a good deal of the symptoms.
Also keep in mind:

quote:

Diagnosing adults is more challenging, as standard diagnostic criteria are designed for children and the expression of AS changes with age; adult diagnosis requires painstaking clinical examination and thorough medical history gained from both the individual and other people who know the person, focusing on childhood behavior.

So while you've may have grown more social over the years, what really counts is your childhood years.
Personally, I score a lot higher than average on the AQ test.
Nowadays I get around a 25, but in my childhood years that score pushed the 30 (for those who don't know, 32 is considered high enough to have full-blown asperger, while the average normal score being about 17.)

I also show clear symptoms of addictive personality disorder, except that, like you, I've never become addicted to dangerous chemical substances.
It seems like my brain finds a way of dealing with stress by replacing it with escapes, often in the intellectual direction. Oddly enough my "escape" behave would often be considered to be more stressful then the stress I'm trying to replace by a grand majority of the population.
Like you, I also have a tendency to seclude myself and emerge myself completely in whatever hold my focus at that time.
Sometimes, this behavior can become almost obsessively addictive, to the point that I get physical withdrawal symptoms like anxiety and extreme nervousness when I'm unable to engage in my “escapes”.
The only way I've found to break this type of behavior is actually socializing, which is also the LAST thing I want to do when I get into these types of moods.
Because I know that my tendency to withdrawal from real life face to face socialization is the first indication that I'm going into another episode, I've actually taught myself to predict these moods and actively try to prevent them by forcing myself to go out and hang around people.

I can understand why you would draw the comparison with “enslavement” because the feeling you get when trapped in this type of behavior does make it feel like the current addiction is controlling and taking over your whole life. Consuming would actually be a good way to describe it.
At the same time, I do think that the term “enslavement” is a wrong one. I have a submissive and “slavish” personality, and I've actually found that my emotional balance when dominated by another is exactly the opposite of how I feel when I'm being controlled by my own addictions.
Whilst the control the addictions have causes more unrest and dis-settlement, especially long term, and make my thoughts, emotions and even physical body (stress levels) increasingly erratic, actual mastery, enslavement and submission make me feel calm, peaceful and at balance.

The only time I'm actually able to completely "shut-off" my brain and have crystal clear focus is when highly submissive to another. It's like he can “center” all my energy into a central point and focus is in whatever direction he wants. The “addiction” I get to him that mastery creates is also a very different one then my other addictions, because it is far less obsessive, and far more long-lasting in nature. I can go weeks without actually physically engaging with the man that dominates me, and still be hyper focused because of his influence, while with other addictions, the focus only lasts while engaging in them, and only applies to the specific behavior associated with the addiction.
Another important difference between submission and these addictions is that submission is actually a mind-set in which I totally let go of control, while my addictions are created by a desperate attempt to be in total control. The goal of engaging in either behavior is almost absolutely opposite from each other.

< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 6/2/2010 7:34:06 AM >

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Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

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