RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contemporary BDSM?

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/12/2010 1:05:16 PM

laurell3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

People started doing things, then someone else slapped a catchy label on it that stuck. Or do you think the first heavy metal band refused to play music until after they found a way to describe the music they wanted to play? The thing comes first, the label comes after.

As far as labels being vague enough to refer to a great many different kind of people, so what? The term blonde refers to both Northern Europeans and those of darker skin color who use dye. That's certainly vague as well.

Actually I believe the OP refers to effects of the Internet on what traditionally was a matter of much less ambiguity in terms. Here we have in effect an advertisement, with pics...a portfolio possible. We plaster in our text a proclaimation of being dominant, submission, sadistic or masochistic.

That is a very fast acceleration of discovery and in addition...being free of charge, it means anybody at all can come do this. Now I am not talking about subs wanting to be 'owned' and slaves seeking only to submit. Our terms our as malleable as in any particular interest.

Thus the question...is it that with so many who don't really know much at all about what's on or even the terms here, changed or yes, even diluted the fetish or kinky power exchange, so-called BDSM lifestyle ? I feel as if it has and all we can do is weed through it. There are many here who probably belong on match.com or AFF. So what else is new ?

No we did actually understand what he was rather unartfully and vehemently attempting to say. The problem is not that he professes the forer effect has diluted the lifestyle, it's that his proposed solution to that is to embrace mental illness and declare yourself deviant and be ashamed for it. You might have missed those parts in his ranting rage.

Who cares? There are people out there that shouldn't be driving that I'm not quite sure got their first driver's license. It doesn't make me ashamed to drive.

OP, you're really not much different than the people you complain of. You come here professing superiority like the exact stereotype of the dogmatic characiture you profess to hate. Irony. It's a fantastic thing. You go right ahead and define yourself by society's standards and embrace shame if that works for you, I'm going to have to pass on that.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 6/12/2010 1:13:47 PM >

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/12/2010 2:21:51 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

The topic is of GREAT concern to BDSMers that live in the USA. Yes, other parts of the world live under less stringent laws. The "passing" (as in dying) of DSM-IV(TR) should be celebrated in the USA BDSM and Leather communities.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I challenge the whole psychological paradigm that this DSM-IV is based upon, and we should challenge it, because if something isn't relevant from a cross cultural perspective, it isn't valid as a hard science to label happy functioning people who harm no one else as "deviant"

quote:

I'm not sure where your particular "world view" comes from

I'm a trained anthropologist...

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/12/2010 3:31:42 PM

LanceHughes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

The topic is of GREAT concern to BDSMers that live in the USA. Yes, other parts of the world live under less stringent laws. The "passing" (as in dying) of DSM-IV(TR) should be celebrated in the USA BDSM and Leather communities.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I challenge the whole psychological paradigm that this DSM-IV is based upon, and we should challenge it, because if something isn't relevant from a cross cultural perspective, it isn't valid as a hard science to label happy functioning people who harm no one else as "deviant"

Thanks for the explanation. It has taken many, many years to rise to the challenge presented by DSM-IV (TR). The "whole psychological paradigm" is a product of many, many individuals and many conflicting views. You, as an anthropologist, I am sure, are well aware of the so-called cultural war taking place in the US even as we type. The DSM battle in that "culture war" appears to be won and won by the forces representing your view.

When "hard science" came into play, it was in a minor role and mostly that of gathering statistical evidence to use as ammunition against those that held (and continue to hold) views opposite to your own. Again, there is no debate as you mean it. A lot more politics (and attendent posturing) than anything else. Would that writing the DSM (any version) did rest on "hard science." Because gays would have been treated very differently for a long time. Many gays driven to suicide would be alive today. Many families would not have been torn asunder. And so on.

I totally agree with the fact that all DSM versions (including the upcoming DSM-V) have been the provinence of voting..... BLEAH. As a mathematician and computer scientist, I'm disgusted at that prospect. It's like voting on the value of pi - or using the Biblical value (of exactly 3) because gawd says so.

I now understand the importance of taking cross-cultral behaviors into effect. Thanks for explaining that to me so clearly. I agree... that "should" have influenced the first DSM, but it didn't and we can only be thankful (to the various psychologists and psychiatrists and, I'll wager, an anthropologist or two) that they were able to remove the paraphilias given the powerful forces that wanted to retain them.

quote:

I'm not sure where your particular "world view" comes from.

quote:

I'm a trained anthropologist...

I apologize for getting snarky. If I had had the follow-on, more detailed, more lucid explanation, I would never have written that and certainly not in that tone of voice.

Thanks again!
Regards, Lance Hughes.

<edited to 'fix' quoting>

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 6/12/2010 3:34:21 PM >

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Post #: 103

RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/12/2010 3:40:02 PM

juliaoceania

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Many anthropologists are interested in WIITWD. If they had any clue of my involvement on this board they would pressure me to write about it from an insider prospective, you see it is an intersection between two things anthropologists love - internet communities and sexual subcultures...lol.

I have no desire to be known professionally as "that submissive anthropologist"... it just seems kinda creepy to me, not because I am ashamed of it, but I do not want to make a career out of it either.

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/12/2010 4:36:28 PM

LanceHughes

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Earlier, I said I contributed in a small way to the removal of the paraphilia. Earlier, I said that "hard science" was used principally for statistical purposes.

I was a "self-identified S/M practioner" in this study. After testing, I was then trained to administer the tests.

http://www.vanderveer.org.nz/research/publications/papers/0420.pdf

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RE: What role has the Forer Effect played in contempora... - 6/12/2010 5:24:43 PM

juliaoceania

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thanks for sharing, Lance

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Post #: 106