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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 7:39:01 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Darwinism supported both Marxism's reordering of society and Hitler's eugenics programs.


Fwiw:

The Communist Manifesto was published in 1848.

On the Origin of Species was published in 1859.


Why must you always bring facts into a discussion filled with rhetoric?


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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 7:42:23 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

Darwinism supported both Marxism's reordering of society...


Are you saying that this "reordering" of society had nothing to do with things like taxation without representation?

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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 9:03:59 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Status: offline 		Troll elsewhere, thompson.

People are actually discussing things now. 

Firm


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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 9:09:30 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Troll elsewhere, thompson.

People are actually discussing things now. 

Firm



Is this your cute little way of saying you are unable or unwilling to answer challanges to your less than accurate constructs of history?

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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 9:27:04 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Troll elsewhere, thompson.

People are actually discussing things now. 


Is this your cute little way of saying you are unable or unwilling to answer challanges to your less than accurate constructs of history?

Thompson, if you have any enlightenment to bring to the thread, then bring it.

If you are simply going to post one or two sentence "Look how dumb your are! (and therefore how smart I am)" comments, then I'm going to return you to "auto-ignore".  You don't even have the saving grace of being funny sometime.

Firm


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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 10:46:39 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Troll elsewhere, thompson.

People are actually discussing things now. 


Is this your cute little way of saying you are unable or unwilling to answer challanges to your less than accurate constructs of history?

Thompson, if you have any enlightenment to bring to the thread, then bring it.

If you are simply going to post one or two sentence "Look how dumb your are! (and therefore how smart I am)" comments, then I'm going to return you to "auto-ignore".  You don't even have the saving grace of being funny sometime.

Firm



I have asked you to validate your assertions and so far you have responded with snark instead of substance.
Now you threaten me with the dreaded "auto-ignore"
If you are unable to validate your puerile chatter then of course the iggy button would be your best choice.
To paraphrase harry callahan "a man/woman has to know their limitations". Validating your assertions seems to be your limitation.

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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 12:37:00 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
It is rational for human beings to believe in a god because of the benefits derived from so doing.

Yet another assertion, care to back these up with anything......anything at all?



A human being can derive comfort....purpose.....stability...through the belief in a god...which makes it a perfectly reasonable proposition...that is where you consider purpose and stability to be useful objectives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

You're wrong. Considering that about half my state gets by just fine without it, you may want to look up the definition of essential.



Yes...well....when I said human experience....I meant the human species. Religion has existed for a fair old amount of time.

Let's see....were I to say: "the United States has always had a President".....would you say: "that's not true...and I'll tell you why...I'm not a President"........just because you and your friends aren't religious doesn't mean religion isn't part and parcel of human experience.

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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 12:48:43 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

More suffering has been handed out for purely secular, political, and egotistical reasons than has ever been handed out by 'religion'.  Even the Spanish Inqusition was a brilliant political move by the king of Spain.



The Spanish inquisition was politically motivated, but still a follow on from the Papal inquisition. I am always amazed that religious people claim religious violence has nothing to do with religion.

Its very simple, if its carried out in the name of religion, then the cause is religion.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 6/10/2010 12:49:18 PM >

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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 2:52:22 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

More suffering has been handed out for purely secular, political, and egotistical reasons than has ever been handed out by 'religion'.  Even the Spanish Inqusition was a brilliant political move by the king of Spain.



The Spanish inquisition was politically motivated, but still a follow on from the Papal inquisition. I am always amazed that religious people claim religious violence has nothing to do with religion.

Its very simple, if its carried out in the name of religion, then the cause is religion.


So you agree that the Holocaust, and Stalin's purges, and Mao's millions of murders and all of WWII was caused by "science"?

Firm


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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 3:07:33 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So you agree that the Holocaust, and Stalin's purges, and Mao's millions of murders and all of WWII was caused by "science"?



I'm not sure how you are including the Holocaust in that since it can be easily argued that that it was a religious purge by those who did not share that religion.

As far as the other examples, you are stretching way too far.

Yes, atrocities and genocides have happened that did not involve religion, but you cannot say that either of your examples were caused by a specific lack of religion while many examples of the same can be tied directly to religion.

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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 3:16:59 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

So you agree that the Holocaust, and Stalin's purges, and Mao's millions of murders and all of WWII was caused by "science"?

Firm



None of the above were caused by science, you know it and I know it. At least your posts are consistent in that they dodge what people actually say.

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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 4:12:35 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

So you agree that the Holocaust, and Stalin's purges, and Mao's millions of murders and all of WWII was caused by "science"?

Firm


It appears that mantra is hung around your neck like a "pearl necklace".
Just because you want it to be so to further your religious position does not make it so. All it does is show your ignorance and bias.

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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 4:39:16 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Darwinism supported both Marxism's reordering of society and Hitler's eugenics programs.


Fwiw:

The Communist Manifesto was published in 1848.

On the Origin of Species was published in 1859.


Why must you always bring facts into a discussion filled with rhetoric?



Occupational hazard: I'm an editor.

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it's never enough to keep up.

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 4:55:11 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Darwinism supported both Marxism's reordering of society and Hitler's eugenics programs.


Fwiw:

The Communist Manifesto was published in 1848.

On the Origin of Species was published in 1859.


Why must you always bring facts into a discussion filled with rhetoric?



Occupational hazard: I'm an editor.


Excuses excuses...and
more excuses.
Next you will be expecting reasoned discussion?

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 5:27:58 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Did you read my footsie post about violence and football...it sort of speaks to your point.

Butch

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 5:40:50 PM   
eyesopened


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
More suffering has been handed out for purely secular, political, and egotistical reasons than has ever been handed out by 'religion'.  Even the Spanish Inqusition was a brilliant political move by the king of Spain.


The Spanish inquisition was politically motivated, but still a follow on from the Papal inquisition. I am always amazed that religious people claim religious violence has nothing to do with religion.

Its very simple, if its carried out in the name of religion, then the cause is religion.

That's pretty convenient.  Now, for the record, I am not religious.  I have said time and time again that I presonally feel that religion in general does more to impede spiritual growth and enlightenment than it does to foster it. 

The Papal inquisition was religious.  The Spanish inquisition was political.  Let's drill it down to it's core... the motivation was greed.  Pure and simple.  As was the US civil war and most wars ever fought and human suffering is not limited to war.  That religion is used as a cover-up for that greed does not make religion itself the cause. 

Do you think that if everyone on the planet woke up tomorrow and said "Well I'll be dipped in sunshine!  There really isn't a God!  Free at last!"  that the world would suddenly be free of human suffering at the hands of humankind?  Greed, lust for power, envy, bigoty, hatred, are human conditions and are equally dispersed among the atheist and the theist alike.

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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 5:46:32 PM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		It is always about the money and all the rest is smoke and mirrors to get the cannon foder to line up for their lottery ticket for a body bag.
You have hit the nail sqare, straight and true.

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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 9:08:56 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
It is rational for human beings to believe in a god because of the benefits derived from so doing.

A human being can derive comfort....purpose.....stability...through the belief in a god...which makes it a perfectly reasonable proposition...that is where you consider purpose and stability to be useful objectives.

1. A person might draw similar comfort et cetera from the idea that there was an invisible pink unicorn watching over them. I don't think it's particularly rational or reasonable to believe in unicorns, do you?

2. I would expect that having an understanding of the world that was consistent with reality would give one more stability and allow them to find an actual purpose for their lives. People who have deconverted have certainly mentioned this.

3. Despite the rhetoric, it's not the case that god is or your existence is meaningless. When a theist begins to doubt it is common for them to have this fear that existence is meaningless etc. and people turn back to their theism for comfort a sense of meaning etc. However, if you actually manage to deconvert you will get over that fear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Yes...well....when I said human experience....I meant the human species.

I understood that, my point is still that you can't call it essential when so many of us live great lives without it.

By the way, your analogy was rather inaccurate. A better one would be where you said that it was essential for countries to have presidents and I pointed out that you were wrong because there are plenty of countries without presidents.

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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 9:13:06 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
Greed, lust for power, envy, bigoty, hatred, are human conditions and are equally dispersed among the atheist and the theist alike.

I'd love to see the statistics that back up this assertion.

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RE: Hawking: Religion will be defeated by science - 6/10/2010 9:25:12 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

Most Marxist still claim that Marxism is based on science.

The result has been endless misery, massive deaths, and at least two world wars.


Hi Firm. Gotta disagree here. I have looked under the bed and in the closet and I'll be fucked if I can find any science in Marx. A political-economic-materialistic-irreligious theory of class struggle .... Yes! But Science? I don't see it. So are we equating anything that is not religious to be Science?

Two World Wars? Wasn't WWI a conflict between Imperial Powers? The war began in 1914. Marxists came to power in 1917 and then had to fight a civil war in Russia. Don't think they were ever a factor in WWI. Were they?

No doubt that Marxism was a factor in the chaos of the Weimer Republic and deriviatives of it were factors in Italy and Spain but once Hitler took power and pushed back against France to the West and began to covet land in the East was not the genesis of WWII more Nationalist/Imperialist than marxist? And you could hardly call Japan marxist. They were clearly Imperialist in their motives.

Be interested in your reply.

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